Spencer Lee at 126 wins Ironman but ...

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

I was watching the Ironman yesterday and have a feeling this isn't going to be popular with everyone, but here goes ...

 

Spencer Lee won the Ironman but ... he did not look at physical or as dominant in his semifinals and finals as he has looked over the past few years. He was less ferocious, less able to control his opponents and less able to score. Yes, he won, and won convincingly (he won 5-0 in the semis and 7-3 in the finals, though his opponent scored a meaningless takedown with 1 second left before which it was 7-1).

 

Lee won Jr Worlds at 50kg (=110 pounds) over the summer. Since then it appears he bulked up but even so I imagine he could make 120 for the high school season. I applaud his decision to go 126 as that's going to be his college weight so he might as well get used to bigger and stronger opponents now as opposed to waiting. So the good news is he was able to win and win convincingly at 126. The bad news is that he isn't quite the beast at 126 that he was at 120. Now, he's a talent and a force of nature, but I also suspect (this is the part some people are going to dislike) that part of his dominance till now was being at a lighter weight and that he might not look so completely unbeatable at 126. 

[treep2000 1,140]

Agreed.  

 

I wonder if Lee would/could reconsider his NCAA school of choice. 

1.) He could benefit (GREATLY) from the NaTo school of "Lift until you look like a miniature Incredible Hulk" plan:  +1 tOSU

2.) He could benefit (GREATLY) from training with the 2016 WORLD CHAMPION at 61kg (Logie-Bear):  +1 tOSU

3.) Tom Ryan now has a "data driven" track record for the lightweights, and helping them become incredibly successful, or improving rapidly (Jaggers, NaTo, Logie, etc.).  Now, he is in the process of turning a "not quite blue chip" recruit in JRod into a highly competitive 125'er:  +1 tOSU

 

I know I'm being selfish for tOSU, but... if I'm Spencer Lee, and I want to become a World and OLY Champion at 57kg, wouldn't I benefit more greatly from tOSU and the OTC?  

 

Just an open question.

[wrestlingnerd 3,003]

You don't need to suspect that part of his dominance at a lighter weight was wrestling guys his size. It's true!

 

I agree he looked less overwhelming at 126. The kid he wrestled in the finals got in deep on him several times without a setup and looked meaningfully bigger. (Tha kid is going to be damn good in college, by the way.) Still, Lee left zero doubt as to who the alpha dog in the weight class was.

 

The excitement around Lee revolves around his precocious technique and his mental toughness, not around his physical ability. He'll have to gain more muscle for sure to continue his dominance in college.

[Housebuye 2,437]

I am a tOSU fan, but Iowa has a great track record with 125ers too.

 

I imagine they will have him on a serious lifting program right away. I assume he will redshirt for this reason.

 

He is too small for 125 and will get bullied by some guys if he doesn't bulk up. He is amazing to watch and he has the potential to be one of our best, but he does need some more physicality.

 

The good news is, he is surrounded by incredible coaches and I'm sure they have a plan for him.

[treep2000 1,140]

I am a tOSU fan, but Iowa has a great track record with 125ers too.

 

I imagine they will have him on a serious lifting program right away. I assume he will redshirt for this reason.

 

He is too small for 125 and will get bullied by some guys if he doesn't bulk up. He is amazing to watch and he has the potential to be one of our best, but he does need some more physicality.

 

The good news is, he is surrounded by incredible coaches and I'm sure they have a plan for him.

 

 

I get your point completely.  I'm just being "selfish", for both tOSU and for Lee.  Would love to see Lee reconsider, join tOSU / OTC, and become the 57kg World Champ at some point.  

 

I saw on another thread and interesting stat... out of the Men's Freestyle senior level weight class world champions this year, two (2) of the eight (8) champions not only hailed from the USA, but they hailed from Columbus (OTC).  Logie and Snyder.  

 

Just sayin'!  :-)

[Witherman 384]

spencer will do just fine in the Iowa room.  tOSU has had some recent success with Logie, but I wouldn't quite compare yourselves to the proven Terry Brands track record just yet. 

 

i'm not sure he even walks around at 25 yet and he bumped up and walked through the ironman.  sure he may not be tech'ing these kids anymore but there wasn't a moment in that finals match that I was worried.

[LemonPie 1,368]

He is not too small.  He weighed in at 126.3. 

 

spencer will do just fine in the Iowa room.  tOSU has had some recent success with Logie, but I wouldn't quite compare yourselves to the proven Terry Brands track record just yet. 

 

i'm not sure he even walks around at 25 yet and he bumped up and walked through the ironman.  sure he may not be tech'ing these kids anymore but there wasn't a moment in that finals match that I was worried.

He weighed in at 126.3, FWIW.  I'd say he's probably walking around at 130 or higher.  I swear some of y'all need to get your eyes checked.  He's not that small.

Edited December 11, 2016 by LemonPie

[stp 564]

Pretty much the only difference was Lee couldn't tilt at will.    He gave up one meaningless takedown as time expired and now everybody believes he's not as dominate.  

 

Yea yea yea.....by past results I suppose it is true he wasn't as dominate.  I say with my eyes rolling.  

[LemonPie 1,368]

I am a tOSU fan, but Iowa has a great track record with 125ers too.

 

I imagine they will have him on a serious lifting program right away. I assume he will redshirt for this reason.

 

He is too small for 125 and will get bullied by some guys if he doesn't bulk up. He is amazing to watch and he has the potential to be one of our best, but he does need some more physicality.

 

The good news is, he is surrounded by incredible coaches and I'm sure they have a plan for him.

Lee already looks bigger than Mueller ever did in HS and Mueller is destroying college 125 pounders as a true freshman. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by LemonPie

[Witherman 384]

He is not too small.  He weighed in at 126.3. 

 

He weighed in at 126.3, FWIW.  I'd say he's probably walking around at 130 or so.  I swear some of y'all need to get your eyes checked.  He's not that small.

 

today's 25 lbers in college cut from 50+.  I cut from 45+ to get to 25.  He's small at 25.

[LemonPie 1,368]

today's 25 lbers in college cut from 50+.  I cut from 45+ to get to 25.  He's small at 25.

No.  No, they don't

[LemonPie 1,368]

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/808979-120-f-jack-mueller-trinity-christian-tx-vs-zach-sherman-blair-academy-nj

 

Mueller vs. Sherman- 1 year ago tomorrow

 

http://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/45232/mueller-jack/profile

 

125 is nothing to be scared of 

Edited December 11, 2016 by LemonPie

[whyme25 54]

No.  No, they don't

 

Most cut from 40/45

[LemonPie 1,368]

Most cut from 40/45

Yes, and Lee is probably 130-135 already.  And likely redshirting.  Even if he isn't....  See: Mueller. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by LemonPie

[VakAttack 4,014]

LOL.

[MNRodent 226]

I wouldn't call Joey Silva's last second takedown meaningless.  That td, along with his simi's win over Decatur certainly increased his value as a recruit.

[Housebuye 2,437]

Pretty much the only difference was Lee couldn't tilt at will. He gave up one meaningless takedown as time expired and now everybody believes he's not as dominate.

 

Yea yea yea.....by past results I suppose it is true he wasn't as dominate. I say with my eyes rolling.

He has shown vulnerability previously going up in weight.

 

There is very little you can criticize about him. Lee is my favorite prospect to watch in awhile. His only apparent hole is around his size. Fix exposed it and this tournament showed he can be bullied around a bit as well. Neither Fix nor The field Is as strong as some of the top 125ers, so it is something to be concerned about.

 

I don't think this wil actually happen. He has people around him that will make sure it doesn't. He really is that good. But...if I was game planning against him, I would suggest pushing him around, putting pressure on his neck, etc. not that is would always lead to a win but that is the only potential chink in his armor.

 

I will say that I think him being a 4 timer is a possibility.

 

Today in folk style, who would you pick, NATO or Lee? Granted NATO bumped a weight class, but his style would give Lee fits I think. That is the kind of power he will face at the upper echelon of 125.

[Housebuye 2,437]

I wouldn't call Joey Silva's last second takedown meaningless. That td, along with his simi's win over Decatur certainly increased his value as a recruit.

In reference to lee being vulnerable, it isn't really relevant. In terms of Silva? It defnately raises his stock.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Housebuye

[TBar1977 4,532]

Lee will grow into the weight class and then start dominating again, but the very top guys will be able to equal him on strength so and maybe technique as well. He will dominate all but a handful of guys. 

[treep2000 1,140]

He has shown vulnerability previously going up in weight.

 

There is very little you can criticize about him. Lee is my favorite prospect to watch in awhile. His only apparent hole is around his size. Fix exposed it and this tournament showed he can be bullied around a bit as well. Neither Fix nor The field Is as strong as some of the top 125ers, so it is something to be concerned about.

 

I don't think this wil actually happen. He has people around him that will make sure it doesn't. He really is that good. But...if I was game planning against him, I would suggest pushing him around, putting pressure on his neck, etc. not that is would always lead to a win but that is the only potential chink in his armor.

 

I will say that I think him being a 4 timer is a possibility.

 

Today in folk style, who would you pick, NATO or Lee? Granted NATO bumped a weight class, but his style would give Lee fits I think. That is the kind of power he will face at the upper echelon of 125.

 

Which is EXACTLY why flipping the script and training at tOSU / OTC with NaTo would be "best" for young Lee.  I'm a huge fan of Lee, and want to see him succeed.  but... I can be selfish too... right?  ;-)

[wrestlingnerd 3,003]

Today in folk style, who would you pick, NATO or Lee? Granted NATO bumped a weight class, but his style would give Lee fits I think. That is the kind of power he will face at the upper echelon of 125.

Seriously? Today, Nato by decapitation.

 

Nobody at 125 has the kind of power Nato has because nobody at 133 has that kind of power either. Not only is Nato way too big for Lee now, he's too big for any 125 lber as well. Nato very likely outweighs Lee by 15-20 lbs fully hydrated at the moment.

[tightwaist 390]

I agree with much of the sentiment.  Lee wins convincingly, but we are used to seeing him TF guys at will.  Remember that his Semi Final match was against a kid who is ranked 8th, and lost an 8-7 match to Austin Gomez in the state finals last year at 126.  Lee handled him well, he just couldn't turn him. Silva is a legit stud who will probably be ranked # 1 next year as a senior.  He has already won 3 state titles, won Super 32 and is only a Jr.  I think Lee is adapting to the bigger & stronger kids who are national studs...but he will be fine moving forward.  He may need a RS year to get stronger. 

[LongShot 13]

Lee must still be giving up a few pounds to most of these guys I would think.  That being said, he was NOT as dominant at least in a scoring sense as he has been down at the lower weights.  I came away very impressed with Silva. Hadn't seen him before and surprised he's that good coming from FL.  Think he has a very bright future.  Suriano/Lee is a very important rivalry that should unfold on the college mats as early as next year.  If Suriano out produces Lee in college, it will say a lot about both Iowa and Penn St.

Edited December 11, 2016 by LongShot

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

My guess is that Lee could make 120 this year and I think it was very smart that he decided not to. He gets to big advantages out of it. First, he gets to wrestle bigger and stronger guys and make the adjustments. Second, he gets to concentrate more on lifting and adding some heft. He is a natural born winner with tremendous drive, fantastic technique in every position so I imagine it is quite likely that as he adjusts he will go back to dominating like he used to.

 

Here's the question: looking ahead to the spring/summer, will he move up to 55kg and if so, who will his toughest competition be? Will Fix go 55kg? Who else? 

 

Another question for the field: Roman Bravo-Young is ranked second behind Lee right now at 126. As far as I know they have never wrestled. How much better is RBY than the other 126 pounders? 

[TBar1977 4,532]

My guess is that Lee could make 120 this year and I think it was very smart that he decided not to. He gets to big advantages out of it. First, he gets to wrestle bigger and stronger guys and make the adjustments. Second, he gets to concentrate more on lifting and adding some heft. He is a natural born winner with tremendous drive, fantastic technique in every position so I imagine it is quite likely that as he adjusts he will go back to dominating like he used to.

 

Here's the question: looking ahead to the spring/summer, will he move up to 55kg and if so, who will his toughest competition be? Will Fix go 55kg? Who else? 

 

Another question for the field: Roman Bravo-Young is ranked second behind Lee right now at 126. As far as I know they have never wrestled. How much better is RBY than the other 126 pounders? 

 

 

RBY made a cadet world team this past summer winning a field that included Nick Raimo and Jordan Decatur who he beat 2x (freestyle type wins, though). He beat Raimo at WN1. I think Spencer Lee would beat him right now. After they are both in college two years, that match would probably be pretty close.