Mark Hall

[JasonBryant 2,054]

David Taylor last year was a four time All American post grad. Mark Hall is a true freshman. That's a serious distinction between the two.

 

What lesson does it tell people who got turned down prior to Hall if he gets in and they didn't?

 

The accomplished kids in high school get special treatment? Word is Midlands was asked TWO days ago, and had turned down dozens of currently enrolled requests.

 

Does anyone not want to play devils advocate? Sure, he's a draw, but Hall's entry should be the same as everyone else's. He shouldn't get special treatment.

Edited December 15, 2016 by JasonBryant

[LemonPie 1,368]

David Taylor last year was a four time All American post grad. Mark Hall is a true freshman. That's a serious distinction between the two.

 

What lesson does it tell people who got turned down prior to Hall if he gets in and they didn't?

 

The accomplished kids in high school get special treatment? Word is Midlands was asked TWO days ago, and had turned down dozens of currently enrolled requests.

 

Does anyone not want to play devils advocate? Sure, he's a draw, but Hall's entry should be the same as everyone else's. He shouldn't get special treatment.

It tells them it's not an Open and credentials matter.  Junior Worlds is up there with the NCAAs.  Blah blah not folkstyle tournament... let's hear it. 

 

Meanwhile, we have journalists entering World trials.   What a sport. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by LemonPie

[MSU158 1,978]

I don't understand why most of you are surprised.  He is a RS Freshman for a team that doesn't attend the event.  Regardless of his name recognition, I would have been more surprised if they let him enter.  There is no doubt that politics played a part to some degree.  If your team(oh and you just so happen to have won 5 of the last 6 NCAA's) not only doesn't enter, but has been vocal about not liking Midlands, I don't see how that can't play some factor in the back of a Director's mind when accepting/rejecting applicants.  Add that to late request and the equality factor that JB spoke about and this should have been reasonably easy to predict.

Edited December 15, 2016 by MSU158

[LemonPie 1,368]

I don't understand why most of you are surprised.  He is a RS Freshman for a team that doesn't attend the event.  Regardless of his name recognition, I would have been more surprised if they let him enter.  There is no doubt that politics played a part to some degree.  If your team not only doesn't enter but has been vocal about not liking Midlands, I don't see how that can't play some factor in the back of your mind when accepting/rejecting applicants.  Add that to late request and the equality factor that JB spoke about and this should have been reasonably easy to predict.

Yes, Midlands clearly still upset about the existence of Scuffle.  Only hurting themselves at this point though. 

[MSU158 1,978]

Yes, Midlands clearly still upset about the existence of Scuffle.  Only hurting themselves at this point though. 

Yes, the Scuffle doesn't help Midlands.  But, letting Hall wrestle wasn't going to help them any either.  It's not like his 1 time entry was going to make Sanderson suddenly decide to go back or fans by the droves were suddenly going to attend.  Midlands is never going to be what it once was(although it is still arguably the deepest field) and options like Cliff Keen and the SS are actually a better thing for the sport as a whole.  It gives teams options to ultimately schedule what they feel is best for them(even if Reno is their choice ;)).

[LemonPie 1,368]

Yes, the Scuffle doesn't help Midlands.  But, letting Hall wrestle wasn't going to help them any either.  It's not like his 1 time entry was going to make Sanderson suddenly decide to go back or fans by the droves were suddenly going to attend.  Midlands is never going to be what it once was(although it is still arguably the deepest field) and options like Cliff Keen and the SS are actually a better thing for the sport as a whole.  It gives teams options to ultimately schedule what they feel is best for them(even if Reno is their choice ;)).

Given that PSU and Minnesota aren't there, I'd say Hall by himself could draw a bit of fans.  Hell, he has 10K twitter followers.   We're in the business of growing the sport any way we can, right?   Those are two huge fan bases.  PSU and Minnesota HS wrestling. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by LemonPie

[hawktalk3 59]

Oh was Brock Rathbun turned down?  Stephen Alvarez?  What a shame.

No I was thinking more like whoever UNI would have sent, but was told that they were full. Heck, last year I know a JUCO champ that was turned away because the school waited too long to get him in.

 

Maybe the moral of the story is if you want your wrestler in a tournament you shouldn't wait until the last minute and try and get in on name alone.

[boconnell 1,623]

If I wanted my tournament to be great/stay great, then I'd have found a way to make it happen.  I would want the best competition and the most eyeballs.  It is okay if they feel differently.  They run a great tournament and can do things however they want.

[JasonBryant 2,054]

Before the Scuffle existed, the fighting to get into the Midlands was crazy. My alma mater was granted "one bid" towards the end of the Gray Simons era (granted, we deserved no more than 3 at the time). The little guy wasn't getting much help at the monster tournaments. What the Scuffle did was actually open more doors to the Midlands. Teams would then have choices and once that happened, the Midlands was forced to not be nearly as selective and we started seeing more diverse fields. The NCAA's ruling on high school entries changed the landscape, as did the rules of freestyle, which made entering teams of postgrads like Sunkist less and less common. That's not an indictment on the tournament, rather how the sport has changed over the years. 

 

If one (Midlands or Scuffle) were to suddenly cease, then there'd be another that would pop up in its place because they are all viable and necessary options. The fact the Midlands isn't the only game in town anymore is NOT a bad thing. 

[LemonPie 1,368]

Before the Scuffle existed, the fighting to get into the Midlands was crazy. My alma mater was granted "one bid" towards the end of the Gray Simons era (granted, we deserved no more than 3 at the time). The little guy wasn't getting much help at the monster tournaments. What the Scuffle did was actually open more doors to the Midlands. Teams would then have choices and once that happened, the Midlands was forced to not be nearly as selective and we started seeing more diverse fields. The NCAA's ruling on high school entries changed the landscape, as did the rules of freestyle, which made entering teams of postgrads like Sunkist less and less common. That's not an indictment on the tournament, rather how the sport has changed over the years. 

 

If one (Midlands or Scuffle) were to suddenly cease, then there'd be another that would pop up in its place because they are all viable and necessary options. The fact the Midlands isn't the only game in town anymore is NOT a bad thing. 

Of course it's a good thing.  It's a great thing.  But does Midlands view it as a good thing? 

[crablegs 39]

David Taylor last year was a four time All American post grad. Mark Hall is a true freshman. That's a serious distinction between the two.

 

What lesson does it tell people who got turned down prior to Hall if he gets in and they didn't?

 

The accomplished kids in high school get special treatment? Word is Midlands was asked TWO days ago, and had turned down dozens of currently enrolled requests.

 

Does anyone not want to play devils advocate? Sure, he's a draw, but Hall's entry should be the same as everyone else's. He shouldn't get special treatment.

What lesson does it send to guys?  It sends that they're not as good as Mark Hall.  That is a lesson I'm sure they already know.  Maybe they should get to share his world championship too.

[unbiased 516]

So if Dake and Taylor wanted to enter at 184, Midlands would turn them down?

[JasonBryant 2,054]

So if C.J. Brucki wanted to attend and his team wasn't and they asked two days ago, should he be granted an entry after dozens of others have already been turned down? 

[unbiased 516]

If most of the country wants to see what Brucki is made of, then yes, maybe it should be considered.

Edited December 15, 2016 by unbiased

[jerbufoon 40]

wow, might as well cancel Midlands. decent tournament while it lasted. 

I can tell you voted for Clinton by your posts

[tabenn 47]

I don't understand why most of you are surprised.  He is a RS Freshman for a team that doesn't attend the event.  Regardless of his name recognition, I would have been more surprised if they let him enter.  There is no doubt that politics played a part to some degree.  If your team(oh and you just so happen to have won 5 of the last 6 NCAA's) not only doesn't enter, but has been vocal about not liking Midlands, I don't see how that can't play some factor in the back of a Director's mind when accepting/rejecting applicants.  Add that to late request and the equality factor that JB spoke about and this should have been reasonably easy to predict.

I am learning of Cael not liking the midlands for the 1st time. I was told the PSU do's not go to the midlands because they would face alot of Big10 teams that they see all year.

 

So if that is not the case---Why does Cael not like the midland???? just wondering??????

[JasonBryant 2,054]

If most of the country wants to see what Brucki is made of, then yes, maybe it shuld be considered.

 

At the end of the day, you still have to treat people like people, regardless of their credentials pre-college. 

[LemonPie 1,368]

So if C.J. Brucki wanted to attend and his team wasn't and they asked two days ago, should he be granted an entry after dozens of others have already been turned down? 

I would say Brucki had a great chance.  1st at MSU.  5th at Vegas.  30 wins last year.  Would stack up well when they are probably turning down a Mitch Bowman or something. 

[LemonPie 1,368]

I am learning of Cael not liking the midlands for the 1st time. I was told the PSU do's not go to the midlands because they would face alot of Big10 teams that they see all year.

 

So if that is not the case---Why does Cael not like the midland???? just wondering??????

I've thought about this.  Maybe he doesn't like post-grads.  Did he have any post-grads come for his undefeated mark?   I know baby brother had to wrestle (and lose) to Chris Bono once. 

[unbiased 516]

JB,

 

I agree, but if they did decide to take a handful of wrestlers last minute, Hall would be one to consider purely because of entertainment value. The fans want to see him wrestle whether they are for him or against him they want to see it.

Edited December 15, 2016 by unbiased

[headshuck 2,586]

So since they said it was full, this thread was entirely unnecessary.

[LordNelson 552]

Don't you guys get it?

PSU should be able to do whatever they want, without question.

[LemonPie 1,368]

Don't you guys get it?

PSU should be able to do whatever they want, without question.

Finally we get our answer. Thank you. Not asking much, you guys. Edited December 15, 2016 by LemonPie

[TBar1977 4,481]

The obvious answer is that Hall being in your tournament makes your tournament better. It is the same logic that allowed for Taylor to wrestle last year. He made the tournament better. A tournament director would know this. The scuffle will bring him in, i am confident. Their field is better anyway, so no big deal. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by TBar1977

[carp 58]

wow, might as well cancel Midlands. decent tournament while it lasted. 

OK, I've been to the Midlands many times, going back to the 1980s.  If I were to have to decide whether or not to go this year based on an appearance of Mark Hall, I doubt that would tip the scales.  He will put butts in the seats?  How many extra fans attended while Joe Williams was winning year after year.  Seems to me his creds exceeded Hall's'