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6 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Yaz just has no way to take him down. Closer than I thought but my original summation a of the match a 100 pages ago was correct. 

Agree. He can push him out but he knows if he attacks Taylor he is in for a scramble and he will exhaust himself trying to get it and Taylor is soooo good in scrambles anyway.  He wrestled that match about as good as he could have. Great performance by both. 

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Just now, AnklePicker said:

Agree. He can push him out but he knows if he attacks Taylor he is in for a scramble and he will exhaust himself trying to get it and Taylor is soooo good in scrambles anyway.  He wrestled that match about as good as he could have. Great performance by both. 

Yep. Best he can do is slowly get 1 point after 1 point. Problem is it's too much of a tightrope cause Taylor can get 2s and won't get tired. If he goes full force with the pushing he can rack up a 4 point lead or so but he can't maintain that. If he plays it slow then we get what we saw now, he scored 2 pushouts. Taylor has too many advantages.

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1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

Agree. He can push him out but he knows if he attacks Taylor he is in for a scramble and he will exhaust himself trying to get it and Taylor is soooo good in scrambles anyway.  He wrestled that match about as good as he could have. Great performance by both. 

Yeah. It was good by Yaz. If he perhaps could have got risked it at least once to get a TD would have been a lot better position for him to be defensive with a few seconds left when Taylor is always a danger. Credit to Taylor. No domination and tbh not much between them that match showed. I do really feel for Yaz though.

Oslo-will Taylor go? If so we should send Ghasempour.

 

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1 minute ago, Shiraz123 said:

Yep. Best he can do is slowly get 1 point after 1 point. Problem is it's too much of a tightrope cause Taylor can get 2s and won't get tired. If he goes full force with the pushing he can rack up a 4 point lead or so but he can't maintain that. If he plays it slow then we get what we saw now, he scored 2 pushouts. Taylor has too many advantages.

Yep Yaz is outstanding but Taylor is just a bit better in every area aside from underhooks and getting step outs. Felt for Yaz.  He looked devastated there after the match. 

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Just now, Uwwdoc said:

Yeah. It was good by Yaz. If he perhaps could have got risked it at least once to get a TD would have been a lot better position for him to be defensive with a few seconds left when Taylor is always a danger. Credit to Taylor. No domination and tbh not much between them that match showed. I do really feel for Yaz though.

Oslo-will Taylor go? If so we should send Ghasempour.

 

I do not think Kamran can beat DT either. But at least it's better than seeing Yaz's underhooks.

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Yazdani made sensible adjustments and did his best. It wasn't good enough. Sad but we can't ask for more. 

Taylor deserved the win with two takedowns, Yazdani didn't deserve to win with two push outs and a passivity point. Yazdani's plan to win without takedowns to avoid gassing left him vulnerable because DT won't stop shooting and Yazdani can't defend them all. 

DT will be 33/34 for Paris and that's probably Yazdani's best hope of ever defeating Taylor. 

At what point do we give Ghasempour the spot even though Yazdani consistently beats him? If we want gold at 86kg that has to be worth a shot, though it would be very unfair to Yazdani. 

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1 minute ago, The Genius said:

Yazdani made sensible adjustments and did his best. It wasn't good enough. Sad but we can't ask for more. 

Taylor deserved the win with two takedowns, Yazdani didn't deserve to win with two push outs and a passivity point. Yazdani's plan to win without takedowns to avoid gassing left him vulnerable because DT won't stop shooting and Yazdani can't defend them all. 

DT will be 33/34 for Paris and that's probably Yazdani's best hope of ever defeating Taylor. 

At what point do we give Ghasempour the spot even though Yazdani consistently beats him? If we want gold at 86kg that has to be worth a shot, though it would be very unfair to Yazdani. 

I think the strategy was fine but he had to make at least one attempt at a TD. But yes I feel for him a lot. Such a nice guy.

Give Yaz some time, he has been phenomenal and worked so hard, and send Ghasempour to 86 if Taylor is there. The look of the match will be very different.

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That was the only strategy available to Yazdani  with his skillset. See some (actually lots)  going crazy at Mohammadi on insta. You can't expect him turn the guy into Jordan Burroughs. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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1 minute ago, Uwwdoc said:

I think the strategy was fine but he had to make at least one attempt at a TD. But yes I feel for him a lot. Such a nice guy.

Give Yaz some time, he has been phenomenal and worked so hard, and send Ghasempour to 86 if Taylor is there. The look of the match will be very different.

The strategy was to win with 2 push outs and not even attempt a TD, hoping he can totally shut down DT for the entire 6 minutes? That was naive.

He controlled the match well but he cannot totally prevent giving up a TD or two even then, so he has to do more than a few push outs. But DT is a very big guy and hard for him to TD without ending up in an energy-sapping scramble. 

Yazdani did his best against a superior wrestler, no shame in losing to the better guy. But he has now lost to him three times in a row, so there's no point leaving a prime Ghasempour on the sidelines doing nothing. I wonder what Yazdani will do now. Can he ever win gold again if DT is also competing? Will he be able to live with that? Naifonov is closing the gap too. 

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2 minutes ago, The Genius said:

The strategy was to win with 2 push outs and not even attempt a TD, hoping he can totally shut down DT for the entire 6 minutes? That was naive.

He controlled the match well but he cannot totally prevent giving up a TD or two even then, so he has to do more than a few push outs. But DT is a very big guy and hard for him to TD without ending up in an energy-sapping scramble. 

Yazdani did his best against a superior wrestler, no shame in losing to the better guy. But he has now lost to him three times in a row, so there's no point leaving a prime Ghasempour on the sidelines doing nothing. I wonder what Yazdani will do now. Can he ever win gold again if DT is also competing? Will he be able to live with that? Naifonov is closing the gap too. 

Of course he didn't "want" just 2 push outs....he wanted to try more push outs and if he went for a td or 2 it would have at least been better to risk it and may have taken it. He lost 4-3 with 19 seconds on the clock even with this far from ideal strategy we seen. But it wasn't bad. It was always gonna be close this time round after what we seen between these 2. Could have gone either way. Just feel for the guy more from a personal point of view as he is a such a nice guy. 

Taylor gets the bragging rights and rightly so. But Yaz is still a gold medal hero from a personality and role model point of view.

I think Oslo send Ghasempour, especially if Taylor is there.

A 33 yo Taylor can of course be beaten if we are talking Paris. Yaz needs to take some time rest, enjoy his silver and then look at things later on, enjoy his life for a few months. Give Kamran a shot in Oslo.

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2 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

If yazdani is at 74kg it’s his weight class. I know the cut is tough, but he’s really small for the weight.  He just doesn’t have taylor’s frame.  

He beats literally everyone else at 86kg. Taylor is just better because he’s more diverse. 

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Barring a disaster Zare is a lock for Bronze at 125kg and probably would have lost to Gable anyway so that's about right. 

For Mohammadian to win Bronze he *probably* needs to beat: Odikadze, Sharifov AND Hushtyn. All individually winnable matches but that's a very tough set of matches to get Bronze. For Gold it will be Odikadze, Sadulaev, Hushtyn and Snyder. So he's got his work cut out either way lol.

Edited by The Genius

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10 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

If yazdani is at 74kg it’s his weight class. I know the cut is tough, but he’s really small for the weight.  He just doesn’t have taylor’s frame.  

He can't make 74 with 2 day weigh in. Would probably make his style too ineffective.

 

6 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

He beats literally everyone else at 86kg. Taylor is just better because he’s more diverse. 

This is correct. Taylor too many ways to score. Not much more to it unless they change the entire ruleset and make step out worth more than takedown. Yazdani did what he could to mitigate it and it almost worked but Taylor is the better wrestler skill wise.

Edited by Shiraz123

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2 minutes ago, Uwwdoc said:

Yes

Yeah just not too clear on the rules regarding caution as Taylor had 1. So yeah 2 points off Olympic gold. What you get for 1 takedown in FS. There is a lesson there for the underhook forward pressure style that has infiltrated Iranian wrestling at all levels. Look at our most recent cadet team.

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A very disappointing few hours

To be perfectly honest, almost everyone so far has done as expected or slightly better than expected.

For the most part, the coaches used the right strategy and should be commended for that.

I think overall, the conditioning of the wrestlers was poor.  Most wrestled better at the first half, and gassed at the end.  The GR guys fought till the last second.

Given the very tough Mohammadian draw, if he gets a medal, I will be very pleased.

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14 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

He beats literally everyone else at 86kg. Taylor is just better because he’s more diverse. 

Are you trying to disagree with me by agreeing?  Having just watched this exact outcome, I agree with what you said, and think it is very impressive, but I’m pretty sure Yazdani was hoping for one medal color better…

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