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2 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Yeah just not too clear on the rules regarding caution as Taylor had 1. So yeah 2 points off Olympic gold. What you get for 1 takedown in FS. There is a lesson there for the underhook forward pressure style that has infiltrated Iranian wrestling at all levels. Look at our most recent cadet team.

That's the only part that I am a bit sad about if I am honest. He should have risked at least 1 td. 

But I can't be critical at all. These 2 are head and shoulders above the rest in the weight. But only millimetres between them both. Taylor deserves the bragging rights. Now both Olympic champions. Even though he is 3-0 still a rivalry that many people enjoy and may want to see again.

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Congratulations to Taylor, he worked very hard, overcame a serious injury, and is a deserving Olympic champion.

As for Iran, they have some young talented guys they need for develop for the next three years.  They need to work harder on their conditioning, and have a more diverse attack than just underhooks

Yazdani can now build his legacy similar to Takhti or Bruce Baumgartner.  Not as someone who dominated his weight for several years, but as someone near the top for three Olympics and world championships in between

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18 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

He can't make 74 with 2 day weigh in. Would probably make his style too ineffective.

 

That makes sense, he was enormous at 74kg in 2016.

I’m sorry today was tough, the IRI teams are always so much fun to watch, technical, well prepared, try their hearts out and always very respectful regardless of the outcome.  Despite today, america has a ways to go for such a tradition of excellence.

Edited by Drew87

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Just now, Drew87 said:

That makes sense, he was enormous at 74kg in 2016.

I’m sorry today was tough, the IRI teams are always so much fun to watch, technical, well prepared, try their hearts out and always very respectful regardless of the outcome.  

Thank you. Win some lose some, just happy there was not contentious officiating and the results were all fair. Yaz will be back strong. I would be very surprised if he never beats Taylor at least once in this rivalry.

Will Taylor go to Oslo?

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5 minutes ago, irani said:

Congratulations to Taylor, he worked very hard, overcame a serious injury, and is a deserving Olympic champion.

As for Iran, they have some young talented guys they need for develop for the next three years.  They need to work harder on their conditioning, and have a more diverse attack than just underhooks

Yazdani can now build his legacy similar to Takhti or Bruce Baumgartner.  Not as someone who dominated his weight for several years, but as someone near the top for three Olympics and world championships in between

If he can come back in Paris to take gold it wold break Takhti's 2 silvers and gold record and also be a bigger inspirational comeback story. 3 years is a long time, let's see.

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And yes send Ghasempour to 2021 worlds,  especially if Taylor goes. There is no guarantee Taylor even cares enough to go another 3 years after accomplishing his biggest goal. That might be it for Taylor.

But even if he does keep going, would anyone really care if Yazdani beat Taylor in 2 months? It would be 3 - 1, Taylor would have won the Olympic one which is worth like 10 let's be honest. 

Let Yazdani chill out for a bit. Ghasempour is the most pleasing Iranian wrestler to watch by 10 million miles. Let's see how he does at a senior worlds. I would pick Taylor but I want to see it. 

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1 minute ago, Uwwdoc said:

If he can come back in Paris to take gold it wold break Takhti's 2 silvers and gold record and also be a bigger inspirational comeback story. 3 years is a long time, let's see.

If we are going to dream, he COULD win gold in Paris, and again four years later in 2028.

But whatever he does, his legacy will be more like Takhti, and not like Movahed or Khadem, where they owned their weight class for a period.  To be fair, if Yaz had stopped growing, he could have stayed at 74, and probably dominated that weight

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1 minute ago, irani said:

If we are going to dream, he COULD win gold in Paris, and again four years later in 2028.

But whatever he does, his legacy will be more like Takhti, and not like Movahed or Khadem, where they owned their weight class for a period.  To be fair, if Yaz had stopped growing, he could have stayed at 74, and probably dominated that weight

Burroughs would have beaten Yazdani

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5 minutes ago, irani said:

Congratulations to Taylor, he worked very hard, overcame a serious injury, and is a deserving Olympic champion.

As for Iran, they have some young talented guys they need for develop for the next three years.  They need to work harder on their conditioning, and have a more diverse attack than just underhooks

Yazdani can now build his legacy similar to Takhti or Bruce Baumgartner.  Not as someone who dominated his weight for several years, but as someone near the top for three Olympics and world championships in between

Good assessment.

Lets see how Zare Amouzad Masoumi Saravi Kaviani Veisi Elahi Nasserpour Firouzpour Yousofi (all <23 and mostly <21) and some recent cadet champs I missed, Khorramdel Esmaeli etc all develop in the next 3-4 years. Lots of promising guys in that critical age range that could establish themselves in the senior world in time for 2024. 

I am optimistic about the next 5-10 years. 

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1 minute ago, Shiraz123 said:

And yes send Ghasempour to 2021 worlds,  especially if Taylor goes. There is no guarantee Taylor even cares enough to go another 3 years after accomplishing his biggest goal. That might be it for Taylor.

But even if he does keep going, would anyone really care if Yazdani beat Taylor in 2 months? It would be 3 - 1, Taylor would have won the Olympic one which is worth like 10 let's be honest. 

Let Yazdani chill out for a bit. Ghasempour is the most pleasing Iranian wrestler to watch by 10 million miles. Let's see how he does at a senior worlds. I would pick Taylor but I want to see it. 

A lot of people would care, but I would much prefer to see how Kamran does in 3 months. Yaz deserves a few months off.

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Burroughs would have beaten Yazdani

You mean at the worlds before the Olympics?  I would have loved to see that, and yes Burroughs would have an excellent chance against Yazdani.  But I like Yazdani chances against Burroughs more than Yazdani chances against Taylor :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Uwwdoc said:

A lot of people would care, but I would much prefer to see how Kamran does in 3 months. Yaz deserves a few months off.

If you want to just focus on entertainment, send Ghassempour at 86 to face Taylor, and send Yazdani at 92 to wrestle Cox

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Just now, irani said:

You mean at the worlds before the Olympics?  I would have loved to see that, and yes Burroughs would have an excellent chance against Yazdani.  But I like Yazdani chances against Burroughs more than Yazdani chances against Taylor :)

 

I feel JB > Yazdani.   No doubt he had a better chance against JB than he did against DT!

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Hard to say he could have dominated 74, way too much of a hypothetical. He didn't dominate it when he was actually there and he has never dominated a weight. His record at 74 is he went second place in Paris, second place at Medved, then won his trial over Hosseinkhani 5 - 0 and 2 - 0 I believe, beat everyone easily at world cup, the won the Olympics over Gedeuv 6 - 6. Could he have even wrestled well with 2 day weigh in at 74 if they had these rules in 2016? 

He's fine at 86, it's a purely technical issue. He has all the physical gifts a guy could reasonably want. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Hard to say he could have dominated 74, way too much of a hypothetical. He didn't dominate it when he was actually there and he has never dominated a weight. His record at 74 is he went second place in Paris, second place at Medved, then won his trial over Hosseinkhani 5 - 0 and 2 - 0 I believe, beat everyone easily at world cup, the won the Olympics over Gedeuv 6 - 6. Could he have even wrestled well with 2 day weigh in at 74 if they had these rules in 2016? 

He's fine at 86, it's a purely technical issue. He has all the physical gifts a guy could reasonably want. 

 

yes, in the finals against Gedeuv it was 6-6, but he did not give up a single point in all the matches before the finals, and dominated every match until then.  His two rivals would have been Gedeuv and JB.  Given how he dominated everyone other than Taylor in 86, I think he may have been able to dominate everyone in 74, but we will never know

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1 minute ago, irani said:

yes, in the finals against Gedeuv it was 6-6, but he did not give up a single point in all the matches before the finals, and dominated every match until then.  His two rivals would have been Gedeuv and JB.  Given how he dominated everyone other than Taylor in 86, I think he may have been able to dominate everyone in 74, but we will never know

He dominated his bracket in Rio,yes. It was the far easier side to a comical degree but he made it look easy so that's not his fault. Demirtas was his biggest obstacle and to Yazdani's credit he wrestled him extremely well in the quarter final.

Gedeuv wouldn't have been his biggest rival, he basically retired after that match. Came to Iran one time after to wrestle in the league  and was completely out of shape and lost to that Tabar guy. That was it for his career I  believe. Even if he'd stayed the introduction of 2 day weigh in would have forced him up and that would have been it for Gedeuv at 74.

I don't think it's right/fair to give him credit on shaky logic for things he didn't do. Otoguro won the toughest weight as a 19 year old and he's not dominating it now, same with Snyder at 97 and he actually went on a 3 year run. Shabanau also had a win over Yazdani and got injured before the Olympics so he didn't even go.  

Burroughs came up to 86 and almost beat Taylor, Dake has beat Taylor many times. 

Yazdani's energy intensive style is also not conducive to massive weight cuts. 

I'll say this. Instead of cutting 20kg every time you lose and ending up with Yazdani wrestling Atri at 57kg for the spot, why not change coaches? That's a problem with Iranian wrestling. You're chained to whoever the national team coaches happen to be and have almost no say in the matter. And these guys never seem to add anything. He's the same guy he was under Talei and the same guy he was under Khadem, they just got forced to give him a new gameplan.

Who knows, maybe there's a coach out there who could have improved his leg attacks. He had 3 years to do it since his last loss to Taylor. And I mentioned Snyder before, another guy who changed everything when he saw it wasn't working out. Maybe it doesn't matter and Sadulaev still beats him but he at least tried. 

Look at Gilman. The guy was on Atri's level like 2 years ago. They had 3 matches and all of them were close. The guy completely changes his coaches and look at him today. He could have won his weight and he stomped Atri for bronze. 

 

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1 minute ago, Shiraz123 said:

 

Who knows, maybe there's a coach out there who could have improved his leg attacks. He had 3 years to do it since his last loss to Taylor. And I mentioned Snyder before, another guy who changed everything when he saw it wasn't working out. Maybe it doesn't matter and Sadulaev still beats him but he at least tried. 

Look at Gilman. The guy was on Atri's level like 2 years ago. They had 3 matches and all of them were close. The guy completely changes his coaches and look at him today. He could have won his weight and he stomped Atri for bronze. 

 

Excellent points at the end.  We need coaches who can transform wrestlers, work on their weaknesses, and help them develop skills they do not have.  In general, all Iranian FS wrestlers need better conditioning as well

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struggling dealing with the time zones and still trying to work and all that jazz, but...

it was a great match last night no doubt... both wrestled well... i really thought yaz had him...

both are champions in my book...

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Yazdani is one of the best wrestlers of the past two cycles, but I would probably take Sidakov over him. I think he is significantly better than Guduev was. Dake (on a full day’s rest after weigh in) vs Yazdani would be really interesting as well but would call it a toss up.
 

JB wrestling up a weight wrestled a very close match against Taylor, so 74 Kg is clearly a very strong weight.

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An announcer said yesterday that Yaz said himself that 81kg would be his ideal weight.  So he could probably make 79, but I don't think he's going to do that.  He's fine at 86 and can focus on wrestling and not cutting weight.  0-3 against DT is tough but he's clearly right there with him

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23 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Yazdani is one of the best wrestlers of the past two cycles, but I would probably take Sidakov over him. I think he is significantly better than Guduev was. Dake (on a full day’s rest after weigh in) vs Yazdani would be really interesting as well but would call it a toss up.
 

JB wrestling up a weight wrestled a very close match against Taylor, so 74 Kg is clearly a very strong weight.

I agree with everything you wrote, except Dake being a toss up against Yazdani.  After watching Dake get destroyed yesterday, I just don't think he is nearly as good as we all thought he was.  I think his success in the 92 Kg just demonstrates the disparity between the competitiveness of the Olympic weights vs non Olympic weights

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3 minutes ago, irani said:

I agree with everything you wrote, except Dake being a toss up against Yazdani.  After watching Dake get destroyed yesterday, I just don't think he is nearly as good as we all thought he was.  I think his success in the 92 Kg just demonstrates the disparity between the competitiveness of the Olympic weights vs non Olympic weights

as a total american wrestler apologist...

i think dake is as good as we think, but, he just did not wrestle well...

why?

we can all make assumptions, but, sometimes it just happens...

i will wait to see repechage tonight before i make any lasting bold proclamations... 

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Just now, irani said:

I agree with everything you wrote, except Dake being a toss up against Yazdani.  After watching Dake get destroyed yesterday, I just don't think he is nearly as good as we all thought he was.  I think his success in the 92 Kg just demonstrates the disparity between the competitiveness of the Olympic weights vs non Olympic weights

I would agree, except for years we have seen Dake consistently beat Taylor. He even went up a weight and took Cox to a very tight best of 3 series. The guy he lost to yesterday also was at 79 kg last year (I think). We also saw Dake convincingly beat JB at Olympic trials on full rest after the weigh in. I’m not calling Dake the favorite, but I’d say it’s 50/50.

 

With all that said, Yaz is an Olympic gold and silver, his credentials dwarf Dake’s, and he is 3 years younger. So I’d say your argument is probably better supported than mine and based more in reality. Mine is based more on just my opinion and my high regard for Dake. 

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