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1 hour ago, irani said:

I agree with you, but will Ghassempour really get to go?

I also look forward to the Zare Matches against any top guys if any top guys attend

I also hope someone in 57, 65, 70 or 74 breakout and pleasantly surprises us

What makes you think Kamran won't go?

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Interview with Pejman Dorostkar, iran's new fs coach

درستکار: دبیر رفیق بازی نکرد/ از من بد استقبال شد - (khabarvarzeshi.com)

I found this question the most interesting one 

وی درباره برنامه هایش برای جلوگیری از تحمیل چهارمین باخت یزدانی مقابل تیلور و اینکه آیا بهتر نیست قاسمپور در این وزن به رقابت های جهانی اعزام شود، گفت: خواهشم این است فاجعه سازی نکنید و هیچ اتفاقی نمی افتد. او در المپیک تاکتیک بهتری داشت و اگر ثانیه های پایانی مدیریت بهتری می شد به پیروزی می رسید. احساس می کنم حسن این توانمندی را دارد که او را شکست بدهد و امیدوارم اینبار اتفاق خوبی بیفتد. ما هم تمام تلاشمان را برای آنالیز خوب حریف انجام می دهیم.

‎Regarding his plans to avoid imposing Yazdani's fourth loss against Taylor and whether it is not better for Qasempour to be sent to the world competition in this weight, he said, "Please don't  predict disasters and nothing bad will happen . He had a better strategy at the Olympics, and if the final seconds were better managed, he would have won. I feel that Hassan has the ability to defeat him and I hope something good happens this time. We also do our best to analyze the opponent well.‎

 

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17 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Can Pejman Dorostkar outsmart David Taylor and his genius coach (cael Sanderson) 

I do not think Dorostkar has any history of showing strategic brilliance

However, it seems that HYC already made a strategic adjustment and his third match was the closest he ever had, and has Dorostkar said he just had poor execution in the past 20 seconds.  To be honest, I was baffled and how easilly he gave up the last take down

so, I am not sure Dorostkar needs to any outsmarting, they just need to make minor adjustments to the strategy of the last match

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1 minute ago, Le duke said:

 


Fixed it for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Wow, so in addition to already being a better, more technical wrestler than our Yazdani he also has not 1 but 2 masterminds coaching him? Sounds like Taylor will be winning this weight for years to come. 

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14 minutes ago, irani said:

I do not think Dorostkar has any history of showing strategic brilliance

However, it seems that HYC already made a strategic adjustment and his third match was the closest he ever had, and has Dorostkar said he just had poor execution in the past 20 seconds.  To be honest, I was baffled and how easilly he gave up the last take down

so, I am not sure Dorostkar needs to any outsmarting, they just need to make minor adjustments to the strategy of the last match

Last 20 seconds is the end of the match, so fatigue certainly played a role once again.

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35 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

HYC is 26.  1xOC, 2xWC and 6x medalist.  HOF career.  What does he need to do to become GOAT in Iran?  I would think he never gets there in most contemporary hearts and minds without at least one win over Taylor.

I think he has accomplished a lot, and will always be remembered as one of the greatest Freestyle wrestlers

in order to be in the discussion among the GOAT FS wresters he has to contend with the following

  • Movahed - 1 olympic gold medal, 5 world golds, undefeated for 6 years
  • Habibi - 1 olympic gold, 3 world golds, one defeat in 6 years.  It if wan't for that one defeat, which was a freak event, he would have two gold olympics medals Habibi loss in Rome Olympics
  • Takhti -  Most people refer to him as the GOAT because of his sportsmanship and longevity.  1 olympic gold and 2 silvers . 2 world gold, and 2 silvers, 
  • Rasul Khadem - 1 olympic and a bronze - two world golds and a bronze -  but most importnalty, dominated his weight class and beat some of the biggest names for three years until his Knee injury.  I persoanlly think if it was not for his knee injury he would have had one more olympic gold

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8 hours ago, irani said:

 

  • Rasul Khadem - 1 olympic and a bronze - two world golds and a bronze -  but most importnalty, dominated his weight class and beat some of the biggest names for three years until his Knee injury.  I persoanlly think if it was not for his knee injury he would have had one more olympic gold

I can't remember Khadem having a big serious knee injury. I mean everybody has injuries in this sport but Khadem just retired because of his own weird reasons (and nobody knows them yet) he had a unique character as a wrestler

he retired once in 1996 at the age of 24, came back for 1998 Worlds in Tehran because Iran was very weak in SHW and won a silver medal despite being 30kg lighter than everybody. then kissed the mat goodbye. there were talks about a  possible come back for 2002 worlds but I believe that was just a trick to motivate Heidari who was in terrible mental situation after losing twice in 2000 and 2001.

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56 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

I can't remember Khadem having a big serious knee injury. I mean everybody has injuries in this sport but Khadem just retired because of his own weird reasons (and nobody knows them yet) he had a unique character as a wrestler

he retired once in 1996 at the age of 24, came back for 1998 Worlds in Tehran because Iran was very weak in SHW and won a silver medal despite being 30kg lighter than everybody. then kissed the mat goodbye. there were talks about a  possible come back for 2002 worlds but I believe that was just a trick to motivate Heidari who was in terrible mental situation after losing twice in 2000 and 2001.

I distinctly remember his having a chronic knee problem that caused him to retire at the very young age of 24.  Perhaps @Shiraz123@Uwwdoc or others can tell us if they remember this.

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10 hours ago, irani said:

 

I think he has accomplished a lot, and will always be remembered as one of the greatest Freestyle wrestlers

in order to be in the discussion among the GOAT FS wresters he has to contend with the following

  • Movahed - 1 olympic gold medal, 5 world golds, undefeated for 6 years
  • Habibi - 1 olympic gold, 3 world golds, one defeat in 6 years.  It if wan't for that one defeat, which was a freak event, he would have two gold olympics medals Habibi loss in Rome Olympics
  • Takhti -  Most people refer to him as the GOAT because of his sportsmanship and longevity.  1 olympic gold and 2 silvers . 2 world gold, and 2 silvers, 
  • Rasul Khadem - 1 olympic and a bronze - two world golds and a bronze -  but most importnalty, dominated his weight class and beat some of the biggest names for three years until his Knee injury.  I persoanlly think if it was not for his knee injury he would have had one more olympic gold

How is hamid  sourian viewed in Iran? 

And was it Reza who beat Baumgartner again in the 1991 worlds?

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51 minutes ago, HawkY said:

How is hamid  sourian viewed in Iran? 

And was it Reza who beat Baumgartner again in the 1991 worlds?

I cannot talk about how he is viewed in Iran, but will talk about my personal views.  By they way, I excluded him from the list above, because I was focusing on freestyle wrestlers only

  • The man has one Olympic gold, and 6 world gold, so he is Iran's most successful wrestler of all time, and among the highest of all wrestlers around the world
  • He also shocked an surprised all of us by failing to medal in 2008 and 2016 Olympics, and unfortunately, the first thing most people will remember is that his career ended with a failure
  • He also dedicated one of his medals to the supreme leader of Iran, and that did not sit well with some or many Iranians

I will defer to @wrestfan and @Shiraz123 to answer your question about the great Bruce Baumgartner.  My memory has been wrong so many times, I don't want to give out any more wrong information

Edited by irani

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58 minutes ago, irani said:

I cannot talk about how he is viewed in Iran, but will talk about my personal views.  By they way, I excluded him from the list above, because I was focusing on freestyle wrestlers only

  • The man has one Olympic gold, and 6 world gold, so he is Iran's most successful wrestler of all time, and among the highest of all wrestlers around the world
  • He also shocked an surprised all of us by failing to medal in 2008 and 2016 Olympics, and unfortunately, the first thing most people will remember is that his career ended with a failure
  • He also dedicated one of his medals to the supreme leader of Iran, and that did not sit well with some or many Iranians

I will defer to @wrestfan and @Shiraz123 to answer your question about the great Bruce Baumgartner.  My memory has been wrong so many times, I don't want to give out any more wrong information

Mainly asked the question about Hamid since your description of Movahed's career (barring the unbeaten streak) reminded me of Hamid's accomplishments . Was wondering if Hamid is viewed as a great figure like these FS legends. Or is greco that much less a prestigious style in Iran?

I just looked and Iran has never had a Greco flag bearer for the Olympics. Plenty of freestyle.  

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1 hour ago, irani said:
  • He also dedicated one of his medals to the supreme leader of Iran, and that did not sit well with some or many Iranians

no. that was AN (still hate to write his name after so many years but I guess people won't know I'm talking about Ahmadinejad)

and yeah he had to hide for so many months because of negative response he received after that. it was right after 2009 worlds in middle of protests. his coach later explained that he was going to dedicate his medal to some other organization but then AN showed up and he got surprised. they gave him a letter and he just read that. at that moment he wasn't probably sure if he can "refuse" that or not. that was VERY bad timing, AN was the most hated person on the planet in 2009 after the (s)election

interestingly most people completely forget that story, and he is well known and popular these days, mostly because he stayed away from politics completely since that day which is the best thing you should do in Iran.

for people who doesn't know he is the vice president of Alireza Dabir (IAWF's president) and as Bana said, he consults with Sourian about every single matter about Greco.

@HawkY Hamid is considered the best Greco wrestler in history of Iran, this is true that greco is the less prestigious style in Iran but Sourian is a big name, he earned himself the nickname of "General" ! but freestyle is still dominant in Iran. even though Greco is catching up

that guy you talked about Alireza Soleimani is also a big name, his career was ruined with politics, he could participate in 5 Olympics, but he only went to two of them. when he was 20 and 36 ! (and didn't medal. even though he was very close in 1992) Iran boycotted both 1980 and 1984 and he also missed 1988 because of a visa issue. his rivalry with another wrestler Reza Soukhtehsaraei was also a big thing back then and could gather 20,000 people just to watch this match, he passed away in 2014. RIP

and why Iran never had a Greco flagbearer? back in old days Iran was very weak in this style. there was nobody notable to carry the flag and nowadays no wrestler carries the Iranian flag because wrestling is usually in last days of the Games! and wrestlers usually arrive in the Olympic host city in the 2nd week of the games.

Edited by wrestfan

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As we know, no Iranian wrestler has ever won two Olympic gold medals. Who is most likely to be the first?

Just for fun, in my opinion, these guys have the best chance:

1. Hassan Yazdani (26 yo) - His biggest competitor is obviously DT (although Naifonov is only 24 and could improve). DT will be 33/34 in Paris and Yazdani will be 29, meaning time is on Yazdani's side. The gap is closing and Hassan has shown he can keep it close with a good gameplan. I think Yazdani has a good chance to be the first Iranian to win 2 Olympic gold medals in wrestling (at least 40-50% chance). 

2. Mohammad Reza Geraei (25 yo) - also 1 Gold away and can achieve this in Paris 2024 (will be 28 yo). Assuming he stays at 67kg, the field is quite weak: Stabler (3x world champ) will be retired so the main competitors will possibly be Surkov (will be 29/30 and has shown he is beatable), Borrero (will be 32 and near the end of his career), El-Sayed and Aslanyan. I don't think Geraei has lost a match since 2019 so he can beat any of those guys, although he has a lot of random losses and not many wins against the elite guys and GR is inherently less predictable, so I give Geraei a 10-20% chance.

3. Amir Zare (20 yo) - he will be 23 in Paris 2024 and 27 in LA 2028 (and 31 for 2032 Olympics). Of the non-gold-medalists Zare is the most accomplished and is in a weaker weight division and has good experience for his age. Taha will be 33 by 2024 and appears to not be the same guy any more, Gable has retired from wrestling so this potentially leaves Geno (will be 30 in Paris) as Zare's main obstacle to Olympic gold. They have had 2 close matches so far (Zare was easily beating Geno via pushouts until he unexpectedly gassed) and I think a 23 yo Zare can defeat a 30 yo Geno, I wouldn't be surprised if he beats Geno in Oslo next month. At this time, I give him 30-40% chance of Gold at Paris but 2028 is obviously too far out to predict.

4. Mohammad Hadi Saravi (22 yo) - will be 25 in Paris and 29 in LA. Aleksanyan will be 32/33 and is suffering from injuries, so I am not sure he will be at Paris. The biggest threat and clear no.1 is Musa Evloev, who will be 31 at Paris. Age is probably Saravi's best hope of dethroning Evloev, who has looked a level above everyone else since 2018. Then there are younger guys like Melia and Szoke who are good prospects. Saravi is my personal favourite GR wrestler but I will be realistic and give him a 20-30% chance of Gold at Paris. [Of course GR may not even be a part of the 2028 Olympics!]

5. After those guys it becomes far more speculative. Here you have guys like Amouzad Firouzpour and various other guys in the 17-21 age range who it's not worth speculating about yet.

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1 hour ago, The Genius said:

As we know, no Iranian wrestler has ever won two Olympic gold medals. Who is most likely to be the first?

Just for fun, in my opinion, these guys have the best chance:

1. Hassan Yazdani (26 yo) - His biggest competitor is obviously DT (although Naifonov is only 24 and could improve). DT will be 33/34 in Paris and Yazdani will be 29, meaning time is on Yazdani's side. The gap is closing and Hassan has shown he can keep it close with a good gameplan. I think Yazdani has a good chance to be the first Iranian to win 2 Olympic gold medals in wrestling (at least 40-50% chance). 

2. Mohammad Reza Geraei (25 yo) - also 1 Gold away and can achieve this in Paris 2024 (will be 28 yo). Assuming he stays at 67kg, the field is quite weak: Stabler (3x world champ) will be retired so the main competitors will possibly be Surkov (will be 29/30 and has shown he is beatable), Borrero (will be 32 and near the end of his career), El-Sayed and Aslanyan. I don't think Geraei has lost a match since 2019 so he can beat any of those guys, although he has a lot of random losses and not many wins against the elite guys and GR is inherently less predictable, so I give Geraei a 10-20% chance.

3. Amir Zare (20 yo) - he will be 23 in Paris 2024 and 27 in LA 2028 (and 31 for 2032 Olympics). Of the non-gold-medalists Zare is the most accomplished and is in a weaker weight division and has good experience for his age. Taha will be 33 by 2024 and appears to not be the same guy any more, Gable has retired from wrestling so this potentially leaves Geno (will be 30 in Paris) as Zare's main obstacle to Olympic gold. They have had 2 close matches so far (Zare was easily beating Geno via pushouts until he unexpectedly gassed) and I think a 23 yo Zare can defeat a 30 yo Geno, I wouldn't be surprised if he beats Geno in Oslo next month. At this time, I give him 30-40% chance of Gold at Paris but 2028 is obviously too far out to predict.

4. Mohammad Hadi Saravi (22 yo) - will be 25 in Paris and 29 in LA. Aleksanyan will be 32/33 and is suffering from injuries, so I am not sure he will be at Paris. The biggest threat and clear no.1 is Musa Evloev, who will be 31 at Paris. Age is probably Saravi's best hope of dethroning Evloev, who has looked a level above everyone else since 2018. Then there are younger guys like Melia and Szoke who are good prospects. Saravi is my personal favourite GR wrestler but I will be realistic and give him a 20-30% chance of Gold at Paris. [Of course GR may not even be a part of the 2028 Olympics!]

5. After those guys it becomes far more speculative. Here you have guys like Amouzad Firouzpour and various other guys in the 17-21 age range who it's not worth speculating about yet.

Interesting question

In general, the mathematical odds for winning two gold medals are significantly higher for those who have already won one gold medal :)  So Yazdani and Geraie have a shot, albeit a long shot.

With the others, first they have to win their first gold medal, and then continue to be at the highest level 4 years later.  Those are really really long shots.  Odds are probably better than winning a lottery, but not a much better

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26 minutes ago, irani said:

Interesting question

In general, the mathematical odds for winning two gold medals are significantly higher for those who have already won one gold medal :)  So Yazdani and Geraie have a shot, albeit a long shot.

With the others, first they have to win their first gold medal, and then continue to be at the highest level 4 years later.  Those are really really long shots.  Odds are probably better than winning a lottery, but not a much better

That's why I put Yazdani and Geraei as #1 and #2

Very very low odds for a random person sure, but for guys who are young and already elite and near the top, like Zare and Saravi? Still very low but not that low, in my opinion. 

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Just now, The Genius said:

That's why I put Yazdani and Geraei as #1 and #2

Very very low odds for a random person sure, but for guys who are young and already elite and near the top, like Zare and Saravi? Still very low but not that low, in my opinion. 

So, let me make this a math problem

Let's say Yazdani has  30% chance of winning gold in Paris. 30% is pretty good

Now let's take Zare .  

  • Let's say he has a 30% chance (I am being generous) of winning gold in Paris
  • Let's also say he has a 25% chance of winning in 2028 (you can change the odds if you don't like mine)
  • The odds of both events happening (Zare winning gold twice) = 30% *25% = 7.5%

No terrible odds, but far less than Yazdani and Geraie

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5 minutes ago, irani said:

So, let me make this a math problem

Let's say Yazdani has  30% chance of winning gold in Paris. 30% is pretty good

Now let's take Zare .  

  • Let's say he has a 30% chance (I am being generous) of winning gold in Paris
  • Let's also say he has a 25% chance of winning in 2028 (you can change the odds if you don't like mine)
  • The odds of both events happening (Zare winning gold twice) = 30% *25% = 7.5%

No terrible odds, but far less than Yazdani and Geraie

Yes, I agree with that. Of course Yazdani and Geraei have much more chance than the rest, but a 7.5% chance is still not bad. Maybe Taha retires and Zare easily beats Geno at Oslo and again next year, then the numbers can change. But right now I don't object to your numbers. 

I was just curious who else others thought had a reasonable chance (even if it's a low chance). 

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Probably Yazdani out of the Iranians but I wouldn't pick any of them. Zare is a bit too predictable and limited to win an olympic gold in my opinion, let alone win two. And with that style it's difficult to make the team in Iran, we saw his troubles with a wrestler at the calibre of Taheri. Someone better might come along and replace him. Gable's unfortunate retirement helps him a lot though. 

In shape Geno might just be a bad matchup for Zare. Much bigger guy who is also more technical. That will be interesting to see in Norway.

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13 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Probably Yazdani out of the Iranians but I wouldn't pick any of them. Zare is a bit too predictable and limited to win an olympic gold in my opinion, let alone win two. And with that style it's difficult to make the team in Iran, we saw his troubles with a wrestler at the calibre of Taheri. Someone better might come along and replace him. Gable's unfortunate retirement helps him a lot though. 

In shape Geno might just be a bad matchup for Zare. Much bigger guy who is also more technical. That will be interesting to see in Norway.

Knowing how close their last match was and how DT will be 33/34 in Paris, you still wouldn't give Yaz a 50%+ chance? 

Zare is limited I agree, but SHW is very weak without Gable and with a past it Taha. Zare is only 20 so you'd hope he has time to game plan better and add more ways to win. Iran does have a lot of strong young 125kg guys though so that's a fair point. Geno right now is probably better but can he beat a 23 yo Zare with a better game plan at the age of 30? Maybe he can but Zare definitely has a shot there, especially after how their first two matches went.  

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