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1 minute ago, irani said:

really?  to me karimi seems bigger, although he is also undersize for 97

Looking at it from Ghassempour's point of view, you are absolutely right, his only option for olympics is 97

Looking at it from what's best for Iran, I hope Mohammadian can get back into his 2019 shape, or Karimi can bulk up, or Ghassemi can bulk up, or some new young stud shows up

When Karimi wrestled Cox there was a huge size difference, I didn't see as big a size difference between Ghasempour and Cox.

Sadulaev also came up from 86kg and Cox is moving up to 97kg too (from 86kg a few years ago) so I think Ghasempour can do it too.  

My ideal scenario for 97kg is that Mohammadian makes some adjustments and returns to form (and avoids Odikadze lol), otherwise Ghasempour/Karimi/Goleij can all probably get Bronze so it's not the end of the world. 

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1 minute ago, The Genius said:

When Karimi wrestled Cox there was a huge size difference, I didn't see as big a size difference between Ghasempour and Cox.

Sadulaev also came up from 86kg and Cox is moving up to 97kg too (from 86kg a few years ago) so I think Ghasempour can do it too.  

My ideal scenario for 97kg is that Mohammadian makes some adjustments and returns to form (and avoids Odikadze lol), otherwise Ghasempour/Karimi/Goleij can all probably get Bronze so it's not the end of the world. 

I agree that there was a big size difference between Karimi and Cox. (Karimi is another one who would be wrestling 86 if it wasn't for Yazdani), but I thought I also noticed a HUGE difference between Ghassempour and the last two opponents that he wrestled.

I would delete Goleji from the mix.

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1 minute ago, irani said:

I agree that there was a big size difference between Karimi and Cox. (Karimi is another one who would be wrestling 86 if it wasn't for Yazdani), but I thought I also noticed a HUGE difference between Ghassempour and the last two opponents that he wrestled.

I would delete Goleji from the mix.

Kurbanov is a big guy but I didn't notice a big size difference between him and Cox. A lot of the 92kg guys can move up to 97kg anyway. 

I don't think you can delete Goleij if he wins Bronze and has such a close match with KS. He was the first Iranian to defeat Odikadze and could be the first Iranian to medal at 97kg since ...? @Shiraz123 @wrestfan Since I can't remember lol, Mohammadian won bronze in 2015 I think but that was 86kg... Since R. Yazdani in 2013?!

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Just now, The Genius said:

Kurbanov is a big guy but I didn't notice a big size difference between him and Cox. A lot of the 92kg guys can move up to 97kg anyway. 

I don't think you can delete Goleij if he wins Bronze and has such a close match with KS. He was the first Iranian to defeat Odikadze and could be the first Iranian to medal at 97kg since ...? @Shiraz123 @wrestfan Since I can't remember lol, Mohammadian won bronze in 2015 I think but that was 86kg... Since R. Yazdani in 2013?!

Yep

Goleij did good here and could beat Snyder. he deserves credit for that. there is his video after the match blaming himself "che ghalati kardam" and repeating it 100 times

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5 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

Yep

Goleij did good here and could beat Snyder. he deserves credit for that. there is his video after the match blaming himself "che ghalati kardam" and repeating it 100 times

And 97kg is not one of the weaker weights here so that's a legit achievement. I think only Alborov can stop Goleij winning bronze lol.

Goleij with that style against KS will always lose 1-2 passivity points and KS defended push outs very very well since he's so fast and agile, but it was the best gameplan he had and it very nearly worked. If he adds leg attacks like Zare has then who knows maybe he can do it next time, he's still young.

Edited by The Genius

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1 minute ago, The Genius said:

If he adds leg attacks like Zare has then who knows maybe he can do it next time, he's still young.

I have been waiting for him to add leg attacks for a couple of years now.

I guess I am not interested in just medaling, I want to see good wrestling too.  I was genuinely impressed by Ghassempour's wrestling.  Even Nokhodi wrestled well before the finals

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By the way, Jowkar made an interesting comment on TV broadcast

Next year's world championships are in Russia.  This means Russia will send their A team.

The year after that will be the year before the olympics, so everyone will be trying to qualify and send their A teams

The next two world championships will be very high quality

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Goleij is Goleij lol he will never shoot on anyone decent, at 25 he's a different situation to Zare who was in his last year of juniors this year (I know he looks like he's 47).  Goleik "added" leg attacks if you accept him shooting against weaker wrestlers, he didn't even do that before.   He was shooting like Ghasempour against Shariatnia in Iran, I think it was the Takhti lol. Seems he's such a physical force and good at hand fighting and moving guys around that he can still be dangerous for even the likes of Snyder and win medals. 97 will be interesting. Hopefully Odikadze declines considering how old he is and stops bullying our wrestlers. Wouldn't be surprised at all if one of our guys steps up and knocks off Snyder, but Sadulaev is out of reach I think.

 

12 minutes ago, irani said:

By the way, Jowkar made an interesting comment on TV broadcast

Next year's world championships are in Russia.  This means Russia will send their A team.

The year after that will be the year before the olympics, so everyone will be trying to qualify and send their A teams

The next two world championships will be very high quality

Worlds are in Belgrade, Jokar is probably still frazzled by what Quitana did to him in the Olympic final so he's confused giving out wrong information

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Zare's " I saw the crown laying on the ground, so I picked it up with my sword" moment is the highlight of the tournament for me. The aging duopoly's power waned and its hold over the weight class finally over. Long live the king? Lets see how the Zare era play out. 

The Greatest winning gold is not a surprise. A lot of people had  Ghasempour picked as well. To their credit, these weights were not weak this year. 

Team race still undecided until the final day. 

Edited by HawkY

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34 minutes ago, irani said:

Next year's world championships are in Russia.  This means Russia will send their A team.

 

I just noticed next year's world Championship (which will be in Serbia) will be EXACTLY at the same time as the Asian Games . Iran may not even send A team to the Worlds next year. (I mean in Olympic weights, AG will be in 6 weights, not 10)

while wrestling community clearly cares much more about the World Championship. but AG is still a bigger thing for the sport ministry and the NOC. they may force IWF to send top guys to China instead of Serbia. and I believe UZB, KAZ and KOR will probably do the same.

I hope Asian countries pushes UWW to change the dates. it's not fair for the Asian countries.

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25 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Goleij is Goleij lol he will never shoot on anyone decent, at 25 he's a different situation to Zare who was in his last year of juniors this year (I know he looks like he's 47).  Goleik "added" leg attacks if you accept him shooting against weaker wrestlers, he didn't even do that before.   He was shooting like Ghasempour against Shariatnia in Iran, I think it was the Takhti lol. Seems he's such a physical force and good at hand fighting and moving guys around that he can still be dangerous for even the likes of Snyder and win medals. 97 will be interesting. Hopefully Odikadze declines considering how old he is and stops bullying our wrestlers. Wouldn't be surprised at all if one of our guys steps up and knocks off Snyder, but Sadulaev is out of reach I think.

 

Worlds are in Belgrade, Jokar is probably still frazzled by what Quitana did to him in the Olympic final so he's confused giving out wrong information

From what I gather, they were originally supposed to be in Russia, but when the Russian federation got sanctioned, they also lost the privilege of hosting the games.  The fact that Jowkar did not know that is embarrassing.

4 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

I just noticed next year's world Championship (which will be in Serbia) will be EXACTLY at the same time as the Asian Games . Iran may not even send A team to the Worlds next year. (I mean in Olympic weights, AG will be in 6 weights, not 10)

while wrestling community clearly cares much more about the World Championship. but AG is still a bigger thing for the sport ministry and the NOC. they may force IWF to send top guys to China instead of Serbia. and I believe UZB, KAZ and KOR will probably do the same.

I hope Asian countries pushes UWW to change the dates. it's not fair for the Asian countries.

Yes, the announcers discussed that also, and said the Iranian wrestling federation needs to prepare two teams for the two different games

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5 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

What happened to Mohammedian?  Did he lose favor with the federation post-Olympics?

that was part of the rules (if we can call it "rules") whoever doesn't medal at the Olympics won't have a chance to even wrestle at the World team trials.

Yazdani and Zare were exemptions, they still could wrestle at the trials but they both won a medal in Tokyo and made the team without having to participate at the trials.

I don't think Mohammadian ever talked after the Olympics, nobody knows about his plans, he simply disappeared but I assume he will come back next year.

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43 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

I just noticed next year's world Championship (which will be in Serbia) will be EXACTLY at the same time as the Asian Games . Iran may not even send A team to the Worlds next year. (I mean in Olympic weights, AG will be in 6 weights, not 10)

while wrestling community clearly cares much more about the World Championship. but AG is still a bigger thing for the sport ministry and the NOC. they may force IWF to send top guys to China instead of Serbia. and I believe UZB, KAZ and KOR will probably do the same.

I hope Asian countries pushes UWW to change the dates. it's not fair for the Asian countries.

The European games annoyed me too.

When they started in 2015 it made sense. The games were held, no Euro champs were. Makes sense. Like a continental version of what  happens with worlds and Olympics. Then in 2019 the games were held.....  and the championships were as well?  Great so what happens for record keeping purposes? Are the Games and Euros two separate things?. They can't both count towards the same title anymore. Is 2015 now just a null year towards continentals?

And thanks for depleting the field at both events since  a lot of wrestlers will go to one and not the other. Not like we have a dearth of strong wrestling tournaments, right. 

Edited by HawkY

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IWF is publishing lots of short clips about everything in this tournament lol before the match, after the match, lots of conversations. I never saw that before. from any other country. I'm not sure if this is a good idea to show everything inside the team to everybody.

but they are fun to watch from a fan's point of view. Goleij's reaction and his conversation with Dorostkar after losing like that to Snyder was the most interesting, something like "I told you to do nothing why the hell you went for a pushout?" "I didn't hear you, he was on the edge of the mat, I thought I could score one more" "what's the difference between 2-1 and 3-1?"

obviously Dorostkar was angry on Nokhodi more than anybody else, (probably for not following the plan and doing nothing) didn't even talked to him after the match

and A. Yazdani was screaming on his way to the training hall after the semifinal "I'm going to win the gold" but yeah as everybody knew he didn't lol

Dabir wanted to fire G. Mohammadi before the Olympics but for some reasons he didn't. Dorostkar is his close friend. when he appointed Dorostkar as the headcoach almost everybody blamed him for hiring his own friend "who was a terrible wrestler and knows nothing" I remember Dorostkar as a wrestler, he was indeed boring, very defensive and not good but that has nothing to do with his abilities as a coach, (Tedeev also never won a world medal) but now after getting good results here everybody praises Dorostkar like he had a magic wand and changed everything in just 40 days! and everybody curses Mohammadi for not-so-good results in Tokyo, it seems most people think with Dorostkar as coach Yazdani, Zare, Mohammadian and Atri could get a better result in Tokyo. maybe but I'm not completely sure about that.

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8 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

IWF is publishing lots of short clips about everything in this tournament lol before the match, after the match, lots of conversations. I never saw that before. from any other country. I'm not sure if this is a good idea to show everything inside the team to everybody.

but they are fun to watch from a fan's point of view. Goleij's reaction and his conversation with Dorostkar after losing like that to Snyder was the most interesting, something like "I told you to do nothing why the hell you went for a pushout?" "I didn't hear you, he was on the edge of the mat, I thought I could score one more" "what's the difference between 2-1 and 3-1?"

obviously Dorostkar was angry on Nokhodi more than anybody else, (probably for not following the plan and doing nothing) didn't even talked to him after the match

and A. Yazdani was screaming on his way to the training hall after the semifinal "I'm going to win the gold" but yeah as everybody knew he didn't lol

Dabir wanted to fire G. Mohammadi before the Olympics but for some reasons he didn't. Dorostkar is his close friend. when he appointed Dorostkar as the headcoach almost everybody blamed him for hiring his own friend "who was a terrible wrestler and knows nothing" I remember Dorostkar as a wrestler, he was indeed boring, very defensive and not good but that has nothing to do with his abilities as a coach, (Tedeev also never won a world medal) but now after getting good results here everybody praises Dorostkar like he had a magic wand and changed everything in just 40 days! and everybody curses Mohammadi for not-so-good results in Tokyo, it seems most people think with Dorostkar as coach Yazdani, Zare, Mohammadian and Atri could get a better result in Tokyo. maybe but I'm not completely sure about that.

40 days is a short period, but a good coach can make some minor but important adjustments.  Most importantly, a good coach can change the mental attitude of wrestlers.  I believe Za-Re and Yazdani looked far more confident than they did in the Olympics, and I have to give some credit to the coaching staff, and Dorostkar is particular

Dorostkar indeed was not a great wrestler.  However, he did  have good results as a coach in much lower levels

 

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So these are the team rankings as I understand them

  • Iran has 141 points
  • US has 140 point
  • Russia has 133 points
  • Russia and USA will get 25 and 20 points in 97, Iran will get either 15 or 10 points in 97 Kg
  • Iran will get either 6, 10 or 15 points in 70 Kg 

It the above is correct, Russia cannot win.  US is most likely the winner, unless as @wrestfan said before Snyder takes Silver, Goleji and Elahi both get bronzes.

Is the above correct?

 

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2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Someone said Green earns 8 for a 7th place finish.  Russia wrestles for bronze at 70, so they get 10 or 15 more.

Thanks I had not seen the Russian in 70 Kg, so I guess they have a shot too

You just earned yourself some delicious Marine candy for your helpful post :)

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22 minutes ago, irani said:

So these are the team rankings as I understand them

  • Iran has 141 points
  • US has 140 point
  • Russia has 133 points
  • Russia and USA will get 25 and 20 points in 97, Iran will get either 15 or 10 points in 97 Kg
  • Iran will get either 6, 10 or 15 points in 70 Kg 

It the above is correct, Russia cannot win.  US is most likely the winner, unless as @wrestfan said before Snyder takes Silver, Goleji and Elahi both get bronzes.

Is the above correct?

 

no , not completely

all 3 teams still have a chance for the team title. and considering the matches I believe Russia has a better chance but it's still completely possible for Iran and USA too. Iran needs 2 bronze medals + Snyder losing. US only needs Snyder winning. Russia needs to win both medal matches.

Iran and Russia can't win the title if they even lose one match, USA can lose and still wins the title. (USA is guaranteed a 2nd place finish at least with Green 100% finishing 7th and earning 8pts)

Edited by wrestfan

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So, by the time the 97 Kg final takes place, either Iran or Russia, possibly both, will be out of contention for first place

If Elahi wins the bronze, there will be even more pressure on Goleji to win bronze

If Russia wins the bronze in 70, Iran will be out of contention, and Snyder and Sad will decide who wins the championship

If Elahi loses, and whoever beats him, beats the Russian, it's over, US wins

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