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2 hours ago, The Genius said:

Mirzazadeh just lost to Turkey's #2 how could he be favourite for gold? Yousofi is reigning world champion and I agree he would be favourite for gold without Riza or Lopez.

Yousefi just lost to Mirzazadeh today.

He also only got sent to Oslo cause Mirzazadeh got Covid, he would have been expected to be getting Gold too. He also dominates their h2h, I don't think Yousefi has best him once.

As I said in my post, to me he looked a bit injured. But it is just my assumption. If I am correct, then this loss doesn't change my stance in how he would be a favourite without those 2 big juggernauts, as would Yousefi imo. But if he won he could have cemented his no 1 status, but I reckon they will do a best of 3 later in the year and may the best man win who will get the best result internationally.

 

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20 minutes ago, Uwwdoc said:

Yousefi just lost to Mirzazadeh today.

He also only got sent to Oslo cause Mirzazadeh got Covid, he would have been expected to be getting Gold too. He also dominates their h2h, I don't think Yousefi has best him once.

As I said in my post, to me he looked a bit injured. But it is just my assumption. If I am correct, then this loss doesn't change my stance in how he would be a favourite without those 2 big juggernauts, as would Yousefi imo. But if he won he could have cemented his no 1 status, but I reckon they will do a best of 3 later in the year and may the best man win who will get the best result internationally.

 

Yousofi is 0-2 to Mirzazadeh as far as I know and today's match was about as close as it could be so dominates is pretty strong. Yousofi beats him the next time they wrestle IMO

Edited by The Genius

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15 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Yousofi is 0-2 to Mirzazadeh as far as I know and today's match was about as close as it could be so dominates is pretty strong. Yousofi beats him the next time they wrestle IMO

Dominates their h2h record I said. I would say a 100% winning record is domination.

You may have misconstrued that I feel one is much better over the other, you can see from my original post about it that isn't what I feel. I do find it odd though when I said either should be favourites for Gold if Riza and Lopez aren't around that you don't think Mirzazadeh can be considered a favourite cause he lost today, but you do so with Yousefi, even though he also lost today-to Mirzazadeh to boot.

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13 hours ago, Uwwdoc said:

Dominates their h2h record I said. I would say a 100% winning record is domination.

You may have misconstrued that I feel one is much better over the other, you can see from my original post about it that isn't what I feel. I do find it odd though when I said either should be favourites for Gold if Riza and Lopez aren't around that you don't think Mirzazadeh can be considered a favourite cause he lost today, but you do so with Yousefi, even though he also lost today-to Mirzazadeh to boot.

would 0-1 be 'total domination' too? lol. the last time they wrestled Yousofi was 20 at most and this time Yousofi should have won, not domination at all

It's not odd for one guy to be better internationally and the other to be better domestically. Mirzazadeh lost to someone that he might face at worlds so he can't be favourite, Yousofi did not. 

Edited by The Genius

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MR Geraei lost his first match in about 4 years (?) to the current Asian champion 7-3 but they are both in the final so he has the chance to get immediate revenge. 

Mokhtari will wrestle for bronze at 77kg and Peshtam at 82kg will wrestle for gold.

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10 minutes ago, The Genius said:

would 0-1 be 'total domination' too? lol. the last time they wrestled Yousofi was 20 at most and this time Yousofi should have won, not domination at all

It's not odd for one guy to be better internationally and the other to be better domestically. Mirzazadeh lost to someone that he might face at worlds so he can't be favourite, Yousofi did not. 

But they haven't faced each other once.....you can't just spin things and ignore facts cause you have a clear bias and preference to one wrestler, you're using many what ifs and shoulds and showing true bias, I prefer to stick to facts and what has actually happened. And I still don't think you understand-they have faced each other multiple times and he has won every match so that dominates the record. It isn't about performance domination. It's the record I mentioned. You can't deny that as much as you would like to, it's black and white.

Saying yousefi is the better international wrestler again just due to that 3-2 loss is also pretty rich. There are many cases like Mehdi Yeganeh who does pretty well against all his compatriots but truly bombs internationally. This isn't that case. You don't know how Yousefi may have done against Yildrim, and taking my injury assumption aside for Mirzazadeh on my part, all we know are the facts. He lost the final, Yousefi lost to Mirzazadeh. You say Yousefi should have won just because you have bias towards him and it was a close match, but he didn't win.

Like I said before I think they will do a best of 3 and whoever wins when fully fit I would expect to do very well at the Worlds. I think a best of 3 is fair and right. Yousefi may be the better man and if he is then he should win a WTT but it is close, and he hasn't had a single win against Mirzazadeh yet.

 

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59 minutes ago, The Genius said:

MR Geraei lost his first match in about 4 years (?) to the current Asian champion 7-3

No, he had some defeats in 2019. Takthi Cup final to Kavianinejad, Asian U19 Champs etc. he found a new level for himself right after the COVID pandemic.

and this Shermakhanbet has a history of beating Geraei. I believe this is his 4th consecutive win against the Olympic Champion! I hope Geraei makes it 4-1 after the final.

by some funny logic Shemakhanbet has total domination over Geraei therefore he is a much better wrestler lol (the guy didn't even qualify for the Olympics)

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17 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

No, he had some defeats in 2019. Takthi Cup final to Kavianinejad, Asian U19 Champs etc. he found a new level for himself right after the COVID pandemic.

and this Shermakhanbet has a history of beating Geraei. I believe this is his 4th consecutive win against the Olympic Champion! I hope Geraei makes it 4-1 after the final.

by some funny logic Shemakhanbet has total domination over Geraei therefore he is a much better wrestler lol (the guy didn't even qualify for the Olympics)

Thanks, I didn't know that. Crazy to think he lost to Kavianinejad who has now become a bit irrelevant while Geraei quickly became Olympic and World champion

Do we know if Geraei intends to go back to 67kg for worlds?

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6 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

by some funny logic Shemakhanbet has total domination over Geraei therefore he is a much better wrestler lol (the guy didn't even qualify for the Olympics)

This is incredible. Lol. What a irrelevant weak stretch. You trying to compare this to what we are talking about with Mirzazadeh/Yousefi? Who said Mirzazadeh is a much better wrestler than Yousefi? But in this case if the Kaz guy has a 4-0 record over Geraei then of course he dominates the h2h record, accolades and all else aside, just the h2h record and nothing else is inferred. Seems to be a very surprisingly difficult concept to comprehend.

 

 

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I think the debate on who is a better wrestler- Yousefi V Mirzazadeh could be a bit futile because whilst free style rules and set up often fairly determine the winner as the better wrestler or who has wrestled a better match on the day- the GR rules and set up just have too much chance/luck associated with them to determine who is the deserved winner in situations where the wrestlers are comparatively evenly matched. 

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3 hours ago, The Genius said:

Do we know if Geraei intends to go back to 67kg for worlds?

of course

no 2kg allowance for ranking series events, so Geraei. Dalkhani and Mokhtari all wrestled one weight up.

I believe Mokhtari already has the spot for 72kg. he already beat everybody at Takhti Cup and won the Asian Champs gold.

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I was thinking: what does Yazdani have to do to become the greatest Iranian FS wrestler of all time?

Takhti has 3 Olympic medals (1G 2S) and 4 World medals (2G 2S), 7 medals in total and 3 golds. 

Movahed has 1 Olympic Gold and 5 World Golds, 6 medals in total and 6 golds.

Rasoul Khadem has 2 Olympic medals (1G 1B) and 3 World medals (2G, 1S), 5 medals in total and 3 golds. 

Yazdani has 2 Olympic medals (1G 1S) and 5 World medals (3G 1S 1B), 7 medals in total and 4 golds.

If Yazdani completes this cycle with 2 more Worlds golds and 1 more Olympic gold (can all be completed by only 2 years from now, his main rival is 31 years old (Yazdani is 27) and the trajectory of their last results gives a slight edge to Yazdani) he would undisputedly be the greatest Iranian FS wrestler of all time. Especially with medals across 70kg, 74kg and 86kg.

That's a big but and anything can happen (injuries, new guys, fluke results etc), but Yazdani will only be 29 years old after Paris and could possibly go for another full cycle. 

Thoughts?

Edited by The Genius

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1 hour ago, The Genius said:

I was thinking: what does Yazdani have to do to become the greatest Iranian FS wrestler of all time?

Takhti has 3 Olympic medals (1G 2S) and 4 World medals (2G 2S), 7 medals in total and 3 golds. 

Movahed has 1 Olympic Gold and 5 World Golds, 6 medals in total and 6 golds.

Rasoul Khadem has 2 Olympic medals (1G 1B) and 3 World medals (2G, 1S), 5 medals in total and 3 golds. 

Yazdani has 2 Olympic medals (1G 1S) and 5 World medals (3G 1S 1B), 7 medals in total and 4 golds.

If Yazdani completes this cycle with 2 more Worlds golds and 1 more Olympic gold (can all be completed by only 2 years from now, his main rival is 31 years old (Yazdani is 27) and the trajectory of their last results gives a slight edge to Yazdani) he would undisputedly be the greatest Iranian FS wrestler of all time. Especially with medals across 70kg, 74kg and 86kg.

That's a big but and anything can happen (injuries, new guys, fluke results etc), but Yazdani will only be 29 years old after Paris and could possibly go for another full cycle. 

Thoughts?

It not possible. I hear the upcoming USA wrestler Zahid Valencia is going to mow down Yazdani and DT (it says so in another thread here and reading the thread folks seem very convinced). A bit of a shame really as both Yazdani and DT so far have had illustrious careers.

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Firouzpour teched instantly (takedown to lace) by Tsakulov, a Russian now wrestling for Serbia. Tsakulov lost to Karimi in 2018 worlds when he was Russia's 92. Zare coming up for his final shortly. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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4 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Firouzpour teched instantly (takedown to lace) by Tsakulov, a Russian now wrestling for Serbia. Tsakulov lost to Karimi in 2018 worlds when he was Russia's 92. 

Oh man I thought FS was tomorrow, what weight classes are today?

OK so 97kg and 125kg were today, the rest tomorrow. A bit weird but whatever. 

Edited by The Genius

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Just now, The Genius said:

Oh man I thought FS was tomorrow, what weight classes are today?

It's just 97 and 125 today, they are doing the other 8 weights tomorrow. 92kg tomorrow only has 3 people in it alongside Ghasempour, 1 of them being Deepak Punia. They should have just had Ghasempour do 97 here and let him beat Firouzpour in the process so he can focus on Cox and worlds. No need for further trial.

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6 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

It's just 97 and 125 today, they are doing the other 8 weights tomorrow. 92kg tomorrow only has 3 people in it alongside Ghasempour, 1 of them being Deepak Punia. They should have just had Ghasempour do 97 here and let him beat Firouzpour in the process so he can focus on Cox and worlds. No need for further trial.

I'm just glad Ghasempour is wrestling tbh. Cox wrestled Snyder at 97kg but going up and down in weight can't be a good thing. 

Also what's up with Zare? I missed them but looks like he had some close matches here, just one day after I wrote about how he's favourite to become 2x world champ by the age of 21 lol. Guess he's just getting back into shape but looks like his final might be difficult for him   

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16 minutes ago, The Genius said:

I'm just glad Ghasempour is wrestling tbh. Cox wrestled Snyder at 97kg but going up and down in weight can't be a good thing. 

Also what's up with Zare? I missed them but looks like he had some close matches here, just one day after I wrote about how he's favourite to become 2x world champ by the age of 21 lol. Guess he's just getting back into shape but looks like his final might be difficult for him   

 

He was up like 6 - 1 then got 4'd off his own leg attack against Kazakhstan.  He mostly controlled the match. Didn't see the one against Mongolia but from what I remember of that Mongolian he's a big strong guy who can slow matches down. 

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1 minute ago, wrestfan said:

I don't think so. HW wrestlers usually peak later than that age

Thanks. I think Geno/Taha won their first gold around 23 yo. If Zare can get back to his form from last year then I don't see who can beat him.  Seems he's not at that level right now though.

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45 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

They should have just had Ghasempour do 97 here and let him beat Firouzpour in the process so he can focus on Cox and worlds. No need for further trial.

actually I believe they sent Firouzpour to 97kg to avoid this match here. he is not cutting for 92kg. these 2 and the Takhti Cup winner will wrestle in the final trial. they didn't want a pre-trial match

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1 minute ago, wrestfan said:

actually I believe they sent Firouzpour to 97kg to avoid this match here. he is not cutting for 92kg. these 2 and the Takhti Cup winner will wrestle in the final trial. they didn't want a pre-trial match

Agree, he's a bad match up for Firouzpour and Bazri anyway as its very easy to get to their legs. And Ghasempour is only leg attacks, lol.  

 

 

And I think Makhov was 20 when he got his first gold at HW, but then he didn't get on Russia's team for 2008 before coming back in 2009 to win gold again. Zare has an advantage as he got to wrestle worlds two months after olympics, so hard to make a direct comparison. 

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