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5 minutes ago, irani said:

What about Talebi?  He did well in his last tournament?

Talebi 97kg guy ? he lost to Shaabani in first round of trials , I can't remember the score but it was a convincing win.

if you are talking about 125kg, there is no other option, Komeil is retired, Mohebbi out of shape because of lack of training, Zare completely inexperienced in senior level (his loss in the World Juniors final was an accident but we know he can't beat senior level guys by just being though and pushing them consistently)

right now, winning only 1 quota is my honest prediction . but I guess someone else will get lucky with the draw. so maybe 2.

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 I'd send Zare. Mohebi is a waste of time, he's been around for a few years now and is not improving at all. Mohebi's losses are also spectacular, i've never seen a HW who gets thrown as much as him. I doubt Zare's style will ever transition to the senior level in terms of being a top top HW , but I could see him stealing a couple bronzes or so over his career just by being tough and getting push outs, obviously assuming he is able to consistently make our world team over the next years. This is HW after all, that style can work with the right draw. No chance for 2019 at his age, though.

 

 

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:34 PM, wrestfan said:

actually I wrote that somehow, he wanted to win, his coach probably wanted him to stick to the plan so he didn't come up to not be involved and not get penalized later in Iran. after something like 40 minutes the coach was there in his side for the bronze medal match, probably they found a solution, I can imagine the coach telling him "son, don't ruin your career, OK you lost, you still can claim you lost on purpose, we still can fix it"

and yeah I have quite an imagination LOL this is just my theory, we will never know the truth. but I can't find any other reason to explain why his coach was absent for the semifinal but then he was back for the 3rd place match.

Interesting how this developed...

Now he claims he was pressured to lose the match because he was worried for his family. But suddenly he is not worried for his family enough to not expose the story?! 

And totally by coincidence, he is now seeking asylum in Germany (presumably without his family). 

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4 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Interesting how this developed...

Now he claims he was pressured to lose the match because he was worried for his family. But suddenly he is not worried for his family enough to not expose the story?! 

And totally by coincidence, he is now seeking asylum in Germany (presumably without his family). 

Are you questioning whether he was told by the officials that he has to lose the match?

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5 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Interesting how this developed...

Now he claims he was pressured to lose the match because he was worried for his family. But suddenly he is not worried for his family enough to not expose the story?! 

And totally by coincidence, he is now seeking asylum in Germany (presumably without his family). 

actually he is not seeking asylum. that part is wrong, he has a German wife, he is in Germany legally

I know the whole story, not sure if here is the right place to write that. but in short I can tell you guys he had plans in advance to go to the final and face the Israeli athlete. and then never coming back to Iran. but he lost the SF, so he changed his plan a bit. he claims he lost the SF intentionally and you know the rest of story. and personally I think he didn't try much for the bronze, so his claim about losing the 2nd match intentionally is probably correct.

you have a very good point here, if he was worried about his family, why he is not worried anymore ?! that part is a lie.

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5 minutes ago, irani said:

Are you questioning whether he was told by the officials that he has to lose the match?

nobody can question that. that's very obvious. and as you know he didn't need a last minute phone call telling him to lose, he knew that as he had lost intentionally before.

but the part about his family being threaten is a lie.

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2 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

nobody can question that. that's very obvious. and as you know he didn't need a last minute phone call telling him to lose, he knew that as he had lost intentionally before.

but the part about his family being threaten is a lie.

The implicit threat is always there.  I actually listened to his interview.  he said "I am a fighter, I like to fight and win.  I am not a politician and have never done anything political in my life.  It is the law of Iran not to wrestle against Israel,  so I follow the law of my country"

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28 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

actually he is not seeking asylum. that part is wrong, he has a German wife, he is in Germany legally

I know the whole story, not sure if here is the right place to write that. but in short I can tell you guys he had plans in advance to go to the final and face the Israeli athlete. and then never coming back to Iran. but he lost the SF, so he changed his plan a bit. he claims he lost the SF intentionally and you know the rest of story. and personally I think he didn't try much for the bronze, so his claim about losing the 2nd match intentionally is probably correct.

you have a very good point here, if he was worried about his family, why he is not worried anymore ?! that part is a lie.

All the reports are that he is seeking Asylum  https://news.yahoo.com/judo-boss-offers-olympic-lifeline-asylum-seeking-iranian-133434324--spt.html , but then again, I know reports are often wrong, and I have never known Wrestfan to be wrong!!

Interesting, the article states that they are trying to find a way for him to compete in the Olympics, independently and not representing Iran.

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12 minutes ago, irani said:

All the reports are that he is seeking Asylum  https://news.yahoo.com/judo-boss-offers-olympic-lifeline-asylum-seeking-iranian-133434324--spt.html , but then again, I know reports are often wrong, and I have never known Wrestfan to be wrong!!

Interesting, the article states that they are trying to find a way for him to compete in the Olympics, independently and not representing Iran.

believe me, when I'm sure about something in general I'm more reliable than those news websites lol

here Mollaei himself denies the asylum story. as I said he doesn't need that. he will most probably participate under the IOC flag and for the "refugee team"

this is funny he says the media in Iran "lie" about this asylum story, but in fact nobody in Iran talked about that. actually foreign media are talking about his asylum in Germany. since this is a sensitive matter, the Iranian media are not writing much about it. mostly because whatever they say is like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Edited by wrestfan

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1 minute ago, wrestfan said:

believe me, when I'm sure about something in general I'm more reliable than those news websites lol

here Mollaei himself denies the asylum story. as I said he doesn't need that. he will most probably participate under the IOC flag and for the "refugee team"

this is funny he says the media in Iran "lie" about this asylum story, but in fact nobody in Iran talked about that. actually foreign media are talking about his asylum in Germany. since this is a sensitive matter, the Iranian media are not writing much about it. mostly because whatever they say is like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

As I said, I have never known you to be wrong, and your credibility with me is 1000%.  The tweet that you posted demonstrates that again.

It will be interesting to see if he does get a chance to compete under the refugee flag in the Olympics.

He has a mixed record, while he won the world championship in 2018, he has never won gold in the Asian Championships.  he should be a heavy favorite for medal though

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1 minute ago, irani said:

As I said, I have never known you to be wrong, and your credibility with me is 1000%.  The tweet that you posted demonstrates that again.

It will be interesting to see if he does get a chance to compete under the refugee flag in the Olympics.

He has a mixed record, while he won the world championship in 2018, he has never won gold in the Asian Championships.  he should be a heavy favorite for medal though

thanks

I'm almost sure he will get that chance. to me that's a sure thing. it's impossible to represent another country in this short period of time. the refugee team is his only option . even Iran won't be an option for him anymore. not because Iran won't accept him, because the international judo federation will suspend Iran in next few days.

he is a very good athlete, he was world rank 1 before the competition, (he is #2 now) but he is far from being unbeatable. I say he is one of the favorites for medal in Tokyo. I give him something like 50-60 % chance of medal and 10-20 % chance of gold.

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2 hours ago, wrestfan said:

actually he is not seeking asylum. that part is wrong, he has a German wife, he is in Germany legally

I know the whole story, not sure if here is the right place to write that. but in short I can tell you guys he had plans in advance to go to the final and face the Israeli athlete. and then never coming back to Iran. but he lost the SF, so he changed his plan a bit. he claims he lost the SF intentionally and you know the rest of story. and personally I think he didn't try much for the bronze, so his claim about losing the 2nd match intentionally is probably correct.

you have a very good point here, if he was worried about his family, why he is not worried anymore ?! that part is a lie.

It is quite suspicious the head of the Judo federation made a meeting with him immediately and is so very accommodating to him, to try to help him compete in the Olympics! Wow, such a kind head of the federation, he acted so quickly as well ...

How can they ban Iran for some allegations made by this guy who already made plans to move to Europe? And how can he apply to be a refugee in Germany when as you say he is already in Germany legally and no one in Iran made any threats about him? Very political from him and the judo federation in my opinion.

I also don't think he lost bronze match on purpose, unless he realised his first plan to go to final failed so made a new plan to lose the Bronze match on purpose so he can blame IRI for something. Why not try to win Bronze match then not go to podium? I think he planned everything. 

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23 minutes ago, The Genius said:

It is quite suspicious the head of the Judo federation made a meeting with him immediately and is so very accommodating to him, to try to help him compete in the Olympics! Wow, such a kind head of the federation, he acted so quickly as well ...

How can they ban Iran for some allegations made by this guy who already made plans to move to Europe? And how can he apply to be a refugee in Germany when as you say he is already in Germany legally and no one in Iran made any threats about him? Very political from him and the judo federation in my opinion.

I also don't think he lost bronze match on purpose, unless he realised his first plan to go to final failed so made a new plan to lose the Bronze match on purpose so he can blame IRI for something. Why not try to win Bronze match then not go to podium? I think he planned everything. 

I am not sure I agree with you.

On the first point, the head of the Judo federation met with him, I presume, because he has been looking for hard evidence that Iran is forbidding its athletes to compete against Israel.  Iran federation pledged to do that.  He now has someone testifying for him.  He wanted me to meet with him ASAP

 

On your second point, how can they ban Iran base on allegations made by this guy?  Because it's not just allegations for this guy, for 40 years Iran has refused to allow its athletes compete against Israelis.  Forget what the federation wants, the Iranian athletes, coaches and fans deserver better than this non sense.

I do not understand why it would benefit anyone for him to lose the bronze match on propose.  I also think he just lost.

 

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35 minutes ago, The Genius said:

It is quite suspicious the head of the Judo federation made a meeting with him immediately and is so very accommodating to him, to try to help him compete in the Olympics! Wow, such a kind head of the federation, he acted so quickly as well ...

How can they ban Iran for some allegations made by this guy who already made plans to move to Europe? And how can he apply to be a refugee in Germany when as you say he is already in Germany legally and no one in Iran made any threats about him? Very political from him and the judo federation in my opinion.

I also don't think he lost bronze match on purpose, unless he realised his first plan to go to final failed so made a new plan to lose the Bronze match on purpose so he can blame IRI for something. Why not try to win Bronze match then not go to podium? I think he planned everything. 

first let's not forget Mollaei is the victim here, I know he is exaggerating to get more support but you really can't blame him. after all he lost his home country for a possible Olympic medal.

the international Judo federation on other hand has some plans, I think the IJF president Marius Vizer is trying to play a hero to promote himself for some other positions. as far as I know it was IJF's idea in first place and they put that into Mollaei's head. everybody knows Iran is forfeiting matches vs Israel for decades but they needed more proof so they set a trap with Mollaei's help and now they got what they wanted.

international federations usually prefer to let it go or look the other way, because they know they can't force Iran to change the policy, (they can ban Iran obviously and we know that doesn't change a thing. ) they are happy as  long as Iran doesn't forfeit matches in a noticeable way !

 

15 minutes ago, irani said:

I do not understand why it would benefit anyone for him to lose the bronze match on propose.  I also think he just lost.

I can explain after losing the SF, he had to lose this one too, then he would claim he lost both matches intentionally, he couldn't say I lost the SF on purpose but then I won the bronze ! because everybody knows, standing in the same podium with Israel is the same as facing them on the mat.

but personally I believe he didn't lost intentionally. but he also didn't try "hard" . I can imagine he had that question in his mind (win or loss ?) the whole time. of course that's just a theory and we will never know the truth about it.

but I'm sure about his semifinal where he simply just lost

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2 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

I can explain after losing the SF, he had to lose this one too, then he would claim he lost both matches intentionally, he couldn't say I lost the SF on purpose but then I won the bronze ! because everybody knows, standing in the same podium with Israel is the same as facing them on the mat.

but personally I believe he didn't lost intentionally. but he also didn't try "hard" . I can imagine he had that question in his mind (win or loss ?) the whole time. of course that's just a theory and we will never know the truth about it.

but I'm sure about his semifinal where he simply just lost

Good point, I forgot about the Podium policy!

If they ban Iran from competing in international competition, there is no one to compete with.  Most Arab nations (the very ones Iran is doing the boycott for)  are not friendly with Iran.

This is stupid policy, and Iran needs to change it, period.

UAE changed its policy! when they refused to play the Israeli national anthem when an Israeli won gold, UAE got banned from hosting more competitions.  They changed the policy, had a chance to host another competition, an Israeli won gold again, and they indeed played the Israeli national anthem

Of course the difference between Iran vs UAE, and countries like Saudi Arabia is that is Iran in fact has world class athletes.  UAE and Saudis do not, with the exception of the few they have paid to become citizens

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29 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

first let's not forget Mollaei is the victim here, I know he is exaggerating to get more support but you really can't blame him. after all he lost his home country for a possible Olympic medal.

the international Judo federation on other hand has some plans, I think the IJF president Marius Vizer is trying to play a hero to promote himself for some other positions. as far as I know it was IJF's idea in first place and they put that into Mollaei's head. everybody knows Iran is forfeiting matches vs Israel for decades but they needed more proof so they set a trap with Mollaei's help and now they got what they wanted.

international federations usually prefer to let it go or look the other way, because they know they can't force Iran to change the policy, (they can ban Iran obviously and we know that doesn't change a thing. ) they are happy as  long as Iran doesn't forfeit matches in a noticeable way !

He is a victim because he conspired with IJF president to testify against his country to facilitate leaving Iran and living in Germany? Then he goes on Instagram and finds the Israeli and comments "congratulations champion". He is playing a game and I am certainly not crying any tears for him. Maybe he is trying to get a reaction from Iran to justify having to participate as a refugee! 

There is a tension in your thesis: on one hand you say IJF take laissez faire approach and don't intervene much but on other hand you say they planned this entire thing.

Either way, their actions are very suspicious and clearly political - this president clearly has an agenda and Mollaei is not a victim for giving ammunition to this agenda (but of course all Iranian athletes are a victim to illegal US sanctions and I felt bad for Karimi when he had a similar problem, but here I am less sympathetic). 

But I don't care about Judo as a sport and never watched it in my life, so we can agree to disagree :-).

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5 hours ago, The Genius said:

He is a victim because he conspired with IJF president to testify against his country to facilitate leaving Iran and living in Germany? Then he goes on Instagram and finds the Israeli and comments "congratulations champion". He is playing a game and I am certainly not crying any tears for him. Maybe he is trying to get a reaction from Iran to justify having to participate as a refugee! 

There is a tension in your thesis: on one hand you say IJF take laissez faire approach and don't intervene much but on other hand you say they planned this entire thing.

Either way, their actions are very suspicious and clearly political - this president clearly has an agenda and Mollaei is not a victim for giving ammunition to this agenda (but of course all Iranian athletes are a victim to illegal US sanctions and I felt bad for Karimi when he had a similar problem, but here I am less sympathetic). 

But I don't care about Judo as a sport and never watched it in my life, so we can agree to disagree :-).

He conspired with the IJF president?  How on earth can you say that?

These are the sequence of events as I see them, tell me where you see conspiring

1. He was sent to the championship

2. He made it to the semi finals

3. He was ordered to lose, he did

4. He was told to lose the bronze match, because the Israeli medaled, so he did

5. He has enough of it, and decided to go to IJF, and ask to participate in the Olympics without representing Iran

I see nothing wrong with congratulating the Israeli champion, that is good sportsmanship

While I agree the US sanctions are terrible, they are completely unrelated to Karimi and other athletes being forced to forfeit against Israel.

 

 

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65 کیلوگرم: ابوالفضل حاجی پور (مازندران) پیمان بیابانی (تهران)
70 کیلوگرم: امیررضا اکبرزاده (مازندران) با برنده (محمدصادق فیروز پور (مازندران) – امیر حسین مقصودی (تهران) فرهاد نوری (تهران) سعید چهاردولی (همدان) امیرحسین حسینی تهران))
74 کیلوگرم: نیما اشقاقی (مازندران) با برنده (جمال خدابنده لو (همدان) محمد نخودی (مازندران))
92 کیلوگرم: حسین شهبازی (تهران) با برنده (محمدحسین میرباغبان (تهران) ارشک محبی (کرمانشاه))
97 کیلوگرم: دانیال شریعتی نیا (همدان) میثم عبدی (تهران) مجتبی گلیج (مازندران) عباس فروتن (مازندران)
125 کیلوگرم: مهدی هاشمی (مازندران) امیرحسین زارع (مازندران)
 

U23 Trials announced in certain weights 

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2 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

65 کیلوگرم: ابوالفضل حاجی پور (مازندران) پیمان بیابانی (تهران)
70 کیلوگرم: امیررضا اکبرزاده (مازندران) با برنده (محمدصادق فیروز پور (مازندران) – امیر حسین مقصودی (تهران) فرهاد نوری (تهران) سعید چهاردولی (همدان) امیرحسین حسینی تهران))
74 کیلوگرم: نیما اشقاقی (مازندران) با برنده (جمال خدابنده لو (همدان) محمد نخودی (مازندران))
92 کیلوگرم: حسین شهبازی (تهران) با برنده (محمدحسین میرباغبان (تهران) ارشک محبی (کرمانشاه))
97 کیلوگرم: دانیال شریعتی نیا (همدان) میثم عبدی (تهران) مجتبی گلیج (مازندران) عباس فروتن (مازندران)
125 کیلوگرم: مهدی هاشمی (مازندران) امیرحسین زارع (مازندران)
  

U23 Trials announced in certain weights 

Again, it's all Mazandaran and Tehran, with a couple of  token Hamadan and one Kermanshah in there.  hats off to Mazandaran for doing so well, but if Iran wants to do well, they have to get other regions to do well.  We need Azerbajan, Kermanshah, Lorestan, Khorasan to develop great champions the way they used decades ago

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More people being involved in wrestling would definitely result in more good wrestlers as obviously most people who get involved in a sport just don't have the genetics/talent to compete at the elite level. So in that sense it would definitely help if wrestling was as big in every province in Iran as it is in Mazandaran. But I don't think that that is the main problem. Russia's team is mostly Dagestanis and Ossetians. Russia would also be a lot stronger if wrestling was popular all across the country .Dagestan has a similar (slightly lower) population than Mazandaran. There's 700,000 people in Ossetia. They have wrestlers from other areas but those two regions are always the bulk of their team. Similar to how we have had guys like Lashgari (Qazvin) or Hadi (East Azerbaijan). I'd say our main problem is lack of finances and poor coaches. 

 

Look at what a change of coaching and financial backing did for Bajrang. He went from a guy losing to Nasiri to consistent medalist at various tournaments in probably the hardest weight class at the moment. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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7 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

More people being involved in wrestling would definitely result in more good wrestlers as obviously most people who get involved in a sport just don't have the genetics/talent to compete at the elite level. So in that sense it would definitely help if wrestling was as big in every province in Iran as it is in Mazandaran. But I don't think that that is the main problem. Russia's team is mostly Dagestanis and Ossetians. Russia would also be a lot stronger if wrestling was popular all across the country .Dagestan has a similar (slightly lower) population than Mazandaran. There's 700,000 people in Ossetia. They have wrestlers from other areas but those two regions are always the bulk of their team. Similar to how we have had guys like Lashgari (Qazvin) or Hadi (East Azerbaijan). I'd say our main problem is lack of finances and poor coaches. 

 

Look at what a change of coaching and financial backing did for Bajrang. He went from a guy losing to Nasiri to consistent medalist at various tournaments in probably the hardest weight class at the moment. 

No argument that better support and coaching is a bigger problem.  However, Kermanshah, Khorasan, Lorestan and Azerbaijan used to be sporting regions.  Would be a great to get wrestling big there again.  Perhaps we can start by selling a red hat that says "make wrestling great again", and then get Armenia to pay for it.  :)

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