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8 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Parris hits that shot/move all the time, while it certainly isn't a fluke it's not a common move for a HWT and he scores a lot on guys with it the first time they wrestle. 

Why wasn't Parris here? Kerkvliet doesn't look any bigger or stronger than Parris, and I think they're within 1-2 years of each other anyway. Regardless, I look forward to seeing more of Parris in the future and hopefully we see the rematch one day.

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Good question - I think in general Americans pick juniors over U23s.  The biggest issue with U23s is that it interferes with their university classes and the start of their wrestling season.  It's not easy to miss a week or more of school, leave the continent and be training freestyle this time of year - it does negatively affect your folkstyle wrestling and student life when you get back.

As a result, you see more top Americans go out for the junior team over the university one.

Edited by Gantry

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2 hours ago, The Genius said:

That was world juniors final only a few months ago. Zare steamrolled his way into the final (won every match until then by VSU I think) and came up against an equally dominant American (Mason Parris). Was equal in the first minute or so (one step out each) but then Parris shot and Zare got caught in a transition and didn't bring his legs across, allowing Parris to turn on top of him. Zare couldn't escape and got pinned.

But to come back and win U23 Worlds only a few months after that is very impressive. Hope to see him rematch Parris one day...

Thanks,  Of course i had heard all the reports, but had not seen the actual video

Thanks for sharing

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I just caught up with Zare's QF match vs the Kazakh (it was the only match where he gave up a point - he actually gave up 7 vs the Kazakh and won 17-7), and holy sh*t look at that size difference! 

The Kazakh guy is at least 2 years older than him and has been competing at 125kg for 6+ years, and of course Zare was still at 110kg only last year. I would be interested to find out what Zare weighed here (or at the Asian Champs) - any idea @wrestfan

 

Edited by The Genius

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11 minutes ago, The Genius said:

I just caught up with Zare's QF match vs the Kazakh (it was the only match where he gave up a point - he actually gave up 7 vs the Kazakh and won 17-7), and holy sh*t look at that size difference! 

The Kazakh guy is at least 2 years older than him and has been competing at 125kg for 6+ years,

The size difference was dwarfed by the conditioning difference! The Kazakh only had four minutes of wrestling in him. He has been competing for six plus years? His coaches should get him into shape. He's a large man, and if he was well conditioned he could do well at heavyweight. 

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29 minutes ago, The Genius said:

I just caught up with Zare's QF match vs the Kazakh (it was the only match where he gave up a point - he actually gave up 7 vs the Kazakh and won 17-7), and holy sh*t look at that size difference! 

The Kazakh guy is at least 2 years older than him and has been competing at 125kg for 6+ years, and of course Zare was still at 110kg only last year. I would be interested to find out what Zare weighed here (or at the Asian Champs) - any idea @wrestfan?

I don't know but I assume he is nowhere near 125kg.

the Kazakh guy was actually pretty good. I expect to hear more from him in the future. but that match makes me  believe Zare can't challenge Hadi and Mohebbi right now. they are just too big and too strong for him. but maybe I'm wrong. we will know the answer very soon because if everybody shows up they all have to wrestle at the Takhti Cup. no idea about Hadi's back injury and if he recovered , but that was never a big deal and he just needed some rest.

looks like Takhti Cup is very important this year, I read an interview with Saeid Dadashpour and it seems he was told whoever wins the Takhti Cup will go to the Olympic Qualifiers (not sure if that's 100% accurate but that's possible in some weights) and they made it clear Takhti Cup is an important step of the Olympic trials. we know even if we have trials it will be between 2-3 wrestlers in each weight but if anybody wants to be in that short list, he has to earn it through Takhti Cup. (except those who won the quota and already earned that)

but knowing Iranian wrestlers, some of them always make some so-called "legit" excuses to not wrestle in these kind of trials where they can lose to a youngster and lose credibility.

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1 hour ago, wrestfan said:

I don't know but I assume he is nowhere near 125kg.

the Kazakh guy was actually pretty good. I expect to hear more from him in the future. but that match makes me  believe Zare can't challenge Hadi and Mohebbi right now. they are just too big and too strong for him. but maybe I'm wrong. we will know the answer very soon because if everybody shows up they all have to wrestle at the Takhti Cup. no idea about Hadi's back injury and if he recovered , but that was never a big deal and he just needed some rest.

looks like Takhti Cup is very important this year, I read an interview with Saeid Dadashpour and it seems he was told whoever wins the Takhti Cup will go to the Olympic Qualifiers (not sure if that's 100% accurate but that's possible in some weights) and they made it clear Takhti Cup is an important step of the Olympic trials. we know even if we have trials it will be between 2-3 wrestlers in each weight but if anybody wants to be in that short list, he has to earn it through Takhti Cup. (except those who won the quota and already earned that)

but knowing Iranian wrestlers, some of them always make some so-called "legit" excuses to not wrestle in these kind of trials where they can lose to a youngster and lose credibility.

Yes I had the same thought about Hadi/Mohebi, although he is only 18 so it's normal not to be on the physical level of those guys. But still I think he is smaller than those guys in general (Taha/Geno/Hadi all seem much bigger than him in height/frame) and he seems small for the weight for sure, so that is a slight concern. 

Hadi is very good for now so hopefully he can be fit for 2020 then from 2021 onwards lets see where Zare/Taheri/Hashemi etc are and hopefully one of them can be a better replacement than Mohebi. 

Reza Yazdani already called their bluff with that tournament before worlds! So I doubt they will act any differently this time... Speaking of Yazdani, has he recovered? Imagine if they make a trial with a fair and full bracket at 97kg with Goleij Shabani Mohamadian Talebi Goudarzi Foroutan and the others! He will possibly go back into retirement instead. 97kg must be our most stacked and competitive weight right now, I just hope we can find a somewhat conclusive winner instead of having a triangle situation as usual. 

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9 hours ago, The Genius said:

Yes I had the same thought about Hadi/Mohebi, although he is only 18 so it's normal not to be on the physical level of those guys. But still I think he is smaller than those guys in general (Taha/Geno/Hadi all seem much bigger than him in height/frame) and he seems small for the weight for sure, so that is a slight concern. 

Hadi is very good for now so hopefully he can be fit for 2020 then from 2021 onwards lets see where Zare/Taheri/Hashemi etc are and hopefully one of them can be a better replacement than Mohebi. 

Reza Yazdani already called their bluff with that tournament before worlds! So I doubt they will act any differently this time... Speaking of Yazdani, has he recovered? Imagine if they make a trial with a fair and full bracket at 97kg with Goleij Shabani Mohamadian Talebi Goudarzi Foroutan and the others! He will possibly go back into retirement instead. 97kg must be our most stacked and competitive weight right now, I just hope we can find a somewhat conclusive winner instead of having a triangle situation as usual. 

Don't count on Taheri, he almost lost to Foroutan (probably 20kg lighter than him) in a league match. and Hashemi never showed anything special IMO

Yazdani't wasn't seriously injured, they said he had some minor injuries, infections etc and because of them he didn't train properly in last couple of months before the Worlds. that was the "official reason" but it's up to you if you want to believe it or not lol

I assume we won't have more than 4 wrestlers for the final trials but most of these guys have to wrestle in the Takhti Cup, as I said before there are rumors about Talebi (doping) and Goudarzi isn't qualified for the Takhti Cup YET, and whoever misses the Takhti Cup without a valid reason will miss the Olympic trials for sure.

at 97, so far Yazdani, Foroutan, Mohammadian, Shaabani, Goleij and Nejatian are qualified for the Takhti Cup in this weight, there will be another tournament as Takhti Cup qualifier though. (Alireza Karimi as 2019 World medalist will be exempt from Takhti Cup)

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1 hour ago, wrestfan said:

Don't count on Taheri, he almost lost to Foroutan (probably 20kg lighter than him) in a league match. and Hashemi never showed anything special IMO

Yazdani't wasn't seriously injured, they said he had some minor injuries, infections etc and because of them he didn't train properly in last couple of months before the Worlds. that was the "official reason" but it's up to you if you want to believe it or not lol

I assume we won't have more than 4 wrestlers for the final trials but most of these guys have to wrestle in the Takhti Cup, as I said before there are rumors about Talebi (doping) and Goudarzi isn't qualified for the Takhti Cup YET, and whoever misses the Takhti Cup without a valid reason will miss the Olympic trials for sure.

at 97, so far Yazdani, Foroutan, Mohammadian, Shaabani, Goleij and Nejatian are qualified for the Takhti Cup in this weight, there will be another tournament as Takhti Cup qualifier though. (Alireza Karimi as 2019 World medalist will be exempt from Takhti Cup)

Some of these guys can disappear then suddenly appear some years later and look great, look at Hadi before 2016 we would not think we would be clearly the #3 guy at 125kg at the age of 30! 

Isn't it strange that Talebi and Mohammadian both disappeared for 4 years and now they returned and both look great... (I don't say this in a negative way, Mohammadian was good before he left as well, but I don't think Talebi was.) Was Talebi suspended during those years as well? Also what about the Daniel Shariati kid at 97kg, is he still around and expected to compete? But to be honest those 6 you mention are enough and wow that's a tough field. I think it will be Yazdani or Mohammadian, but it's very early of course. 

Edited by The Genius

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3 hours ago, The Genius said:

Some of these guys can disappear then suddenly appear some years later and look great, look at Hadi before 2016 we would not think we would be clearly the #3 guy at 125kg at the age of 30! 

Isn't it strange that Talebi and Mohammadian both disappeared for 4 years and now they returned and both look great... (I don't say this in a negative way, Mohammadian was good before he left as well, but I don't think Talebi was.) Was Talebi suspended during those years as well? Also what about the Daniel Shariati kid at 97kg, is he still around and expected to compete? But to be honest those 6 you mention are enough and wow that's a tough field. I think it will be Yazdani or Mohammadian, but it's very early of course. 

I have to make myself clear, there is nothing official about Talebi but he was absent since the trials (which he lost to Shaabani) from what I heard there is a doping story about him, and per rules they won't make it public until it's official. and I have to say I heard about it from an unreliable source. don't consider it a confirmed news yet. he was around in past 4 years, but never did anything special, he just started to get betters results this year and after winning the Sassari tourney gave himself a chance to challenge Yazdani for the world team but lost to Shaabani in the first round.

Mohammadian on the other hand was officially suspended by UWW for 4 years and he wasn't eligible to wrestle until a month ago.

you should read my VERY LONG post about the U23 trials. Shariti's name was mentioned something like 10 times lol he won the original trials but lost the extra trials to Goleij (Shariati, Goleij and the other guy Abdi all finished 1-1, but Goleij had more technical points) I'm sure he will try his chance in Takhti Cup qualifiers.

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12 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

I have to make myself clear, there is nothing official about Talebi but he was absent since the trials (which he lost to Shaabani) from what I heard there is a doping story about him, and per rules they won't make it public until it's official. and I have to say I heard about it from an unreliable source. don't consider it a confirmed news yet. he was around in past 4 years, but never did anything special, he just started to get betters results this year and after winning the Sassari tourney gave himself a chance to challenge Yazdani for the world team but lost to Shaabani in the first round.

Mohammadian on the other hand was officially suspended by UWW for 4 years and he wasn't eligible to wrestle until a month ago.

you should read my VERY LONG post about the U23 trials. Shariti's name was mentioned something like 10 times lol he won the original trials but lost the extra trials to Goleij (Shariati, Goleij and the other guy Abdi all finished 1-1, but Goleij had more technical points) I'm sure he will try his chance in Takhti Cup qualifiers.

Not a big loss if Talebi is indeed out. But that is the annoying thing about the Iranian trials, they usually end up with everyone losing to everyone in a triangle and there is no clear winner. Hopefully we get one guy that stands out from the others and there are no 'extra' or 'special' trials if some people in the federation don't like the result. I hope we at least get Mohammadian vs Yazdani that's the main match for me at 97kg. 

65kg is tough with Biabani/A Yazdani/Ehsanpour/Sadeghi. Will Yakhkeshi go to 57 or 65? Of those guys I only like Ehsanpour, maybe Emami can come down to 65kg but still Ehsanpour is better. I hope they don't all win and lose against each other in triangle trials like last year. 

For 74kg the trials will be between Emami/Nokhodi/Hosseinkhani/Mohammadi as the main guys I think. Nokhodi only lost to the Russian who is World Gold level at 70kg (10-10 with Baev), Emami got a Bronze but with a great draw and lost close match against his first real opponent but it was in his home, I don't remember the last time I saw Mohammadi, and Hosseinkhani doesn't seem reliable enough. I think we will have another triangle trial here again... I think it should be Emami or Mohammadi here.

125kg is clear with Hadi if he is fit but if not Mohebi vs Zare it seems. Mohebi is bad but 125kg is quite weak so he can have a small chance at a Bronze with some luck. 86kg is obvious also. 57kg also quite obvious for Atri because they love him, but maybe Sarlak can give him a good challenge.

So to me it looks like: Atri, Ehsanpour, Emami/Mohammadi, Yazdani, Mohammadian/Yazdani, Hadi is the best team available for 2020. Did I miss anyone important? (That is assuming we qualify the spot for 74kg of course, which isn't guaranteed!)

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Will be interesting to see if we are actually deep at 97 or if we have a bunch of guys who can all beat each other and have big names but probably won't win a medal, like American fans claiming they were deep at 65kg a few years ago. Although i'm sure the wrestler who won bronze on Sadulaev's side of the bracket the recent worlds is weaker than all of our notable 97kg wrestlers. I also want to see how Maghsoudi does at 65. Sadeghi would have to be completely out of their plans at this point. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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Of the 97s I think there is actually too much drama with Yazdani. I wouldn't send him, too risky. And what is the upside? He isn't beating Sadulaev either, maybe at a stretch he could beat whoever America sends. But I doubt that also. I think we have multiple wrestlers who can just as well without the risk of injury or him decided 2 weeks before that he isn't ready. 

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Good point about Maghsoudi, I don't know why they sent that useless Hajipour to U23 instead of him. It seems a lot of these junior guys want to skip U23 and go straight to worlds. But I highly doubt Maghsoudi can beat Ehsanpour at the moment. 

Tomorrow the GR wrestling starts. This is the team:

55kg: Pouya Naserpour (’18 JW Gold, ’19 Worlds 10th)

60kg: Mehdi Mohsen Nejad (’18 U23 World Bronze, ’19 U23 Asian Bronze)

63kg: Meysam Delkhani 

67kg: Sajjad Imentalab Foumani (’18 Junior Asian Bronze) 

72kg: Mohammadreza Geraei (’19 Asian Championship Gold) 

77kg: Ali Abolfazl Norouzi 

82kg: Choobchian Langeroudi (’18 U23 World 15th)

87kg: Hamidreza Abbas Badkan 

97kg: Saravi (’18 JW Gold, ’19 U23 Asian Gold, ’19 Worlds 7th) 

130kg: Hossein Yousofi (’18 U23 World Bronze, ’19 JW Gold)

I have no idea who the 67/77/82/87 guys are. Very young team. But I think Naserpour, Mohsen Nejad, Delkhani, Geraei, Saravi and Yousofi should medal. Saravi is my favourite greco guy at the moment and I particularly expect a good performance from him here (that means a Gold medal).

Anyone know about the 77/82/87 guys and if they're any good? 

Edited by The Genius

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Ehsanpour didn't have a trial this year but I remember in 2017 he beat Biabani and Sadeghi closely. Maghsoudi's has a lot of size on him also. I'm guessing the same thing happens as this year and they all end up beating and losing to each other. This is assuming they even let Maghsoudi wrestle at 65. 

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14 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Good point about Maghsoudi, I don't know why they sent that useless Hajipour to U23 instead of him. It seems a lot of these junior guys want to skip U23 and go straight to worlds. But I highly doubt Maghsoudi can beat Ehsanpour at the moment.

They simply sent the trial winners, in all 10 weights, unlike the senior they sticked to the trial rules

and about your list, I give absolutely no chance to Sadeghi, he had his chances before. probably more than anybody else. Biabani 1 or 2 good results but then he lost to this Hajipour guy at the trials. he lost to A. Yazdani in senior team trials. I don't write him off completely though, Ehsanpour also tried 65kg before and failed but now with a world medal maybe he can do better with more confidence.

at 74, believe it or not, right now my pick is Dadashpour ! I know he is bad but he is probably better than the other guys. and of course if Hosseinkhani recovers there is nobody better than him. (I can't believe I'm saying this after so many times I cursed Hosseinikhani here !!) Emami didn't convince me even at 70kg, let alone 74kg. but they will try him for sure too. Ahmad Mohammadi was terrible this year, I know people still remember his performance from 2014-15 but that was long time ago and he never did anything special since then, looks like that knee injury ruined his career.

and for 57kg. we can't even think about anybody else than Atri ! unfortunately

about the Greco team, I don't konw much about those new guys but Nasserpour has a hard time to medal, he will face the winner of Japan-Israel in the QF, the Japanese guy is World Senior bronze medalist, he will beat Israel but if he beats Nasserpour too.  Nasserpour can't wrestle in the repechage.

Edited by wrestfan

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40 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

 

Nasserpour has a hard time to medal, he will face the winner of Japan-Israel in the QF, the Japanese guy is World Senior bronze medalist, he will beat Israel but if he beats Nasserpour too.  Nasserpour can't wrestle in the repechage.

This could prove problematic for Iran wrestling.  As you know, the Judo federation has already been iran for competition, if they get caught doing their bull **** moves in the u23 championship, then this could cost Iran big

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48 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

about the Greco team, I don't konw much about those new guys but Nasserpour has a hard time to medal, he will face the winner of Japan-Israel in the QF, the Japanese guy is World Senior bronze medalist, he will beat Israel but if he beats Nasserpour too.  Nasserpour can't wrestle in the repechage.

I don't know why I included Naserpour that was my mistake, I was thinking yesterday that a lot of the top guys at the lower weights are young so it will be hard for Naserpour to win gold. Also I saw the brackets for Japan/Israel next but didn't think about the repechage problem! Wow. I hope Naserpour doesn't have a wife in Germany. 

Edited by The Genius

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Also the 2019 world champ from Georgia is at U23 too at 55kg! If you medal at worlds I don't think you should compete at U23 competitions anymore. But Naserpour has a not terrible draw and should win Bronze in the repechage if he was to compete in it somehow. 

Edited by The Genius

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3 minutes ago, irani said:

This could prove problematic for Iran wrestling.  As you know, the Judo federation has already been iran for competition, if they get caught doing their bull **** moves in the u23 championship, then this could cost Iran big

I don't think so, that Karimi case was very obvious and UWW had to react and still their reaction was very soft. in cases like this Nasserpour can easily "not make weight" in the second day and automatically got disqualified without breaking any rules.

and there are huge differences between Judo and Wrestling, I follow both sports, the IJF president wanted this, they were looking for a reason to do something against Iran, if you watch the recent interview of IJF president (with BBC persian), it was like listening to Mike Pompeo, the same kind of nonsense ! full of political messages, some things you don't expect to hear it from an international federation president, that guy Marius Vizer had his own agenda, he wanted to gain something from this for himself.

wrestling is a different story, Iran is a big deal for UWW, yeah they hurt Iran sometimes with officiating and other things but they never want to lose Iran completely. and they know they can't do anything about this. nobody does, Iran is not going to change this policy no matter what. the best case is to force Iran to at least not brag about such things. (I mean announcing officially that they are boycotting Israel) Iranian wrestlers always make silly excuses like injuries, etc. they are only hurting themselves with this stupid policy (and not anybody else) so UWW simply doesn't care. as long as something like Karimi accident doesn't happen.

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8 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Also the 2019 world champ from Georgia is at U23 too at 55kg! If you medal at worlds I don't think you should compete at U23 competitions anymore. But Naserpour has a not terrible draw and should win Bronze in the repechage if he was to compete in it somehow. 

Georgia even sent Geno Petriashvili to 2017 Worlds U23. they care a lot about this. and they are not alone here, Japan and Armenia are also sending 2019 World medalists.

in Iran it seems they leave it to the wrestlers if they want to participate or not. I can't say we are not sending our best U23 wrestlers (even though in some weight we don't) but it wasn't their top priority, some of those freestyle guys wrestled in the Iranian league only few days ago, I remember I saw Ghasempour, Yakhkeshi and Shahbazi at least. if it was VERY important they wouldn't let the clubs to use these wrestlers less than a week before the competition.

 

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At 130kg Yousofi came back from 0-5 down to win 7-5 vs Yildirim (TUR) in the semi final thanks to a big 4 point throw (more of a push than a throw with the size of those guys). The Turk had been dominant so far. Also, Yildirim is 23 years old so he is 4-5 years older than Yousofi as well, he was the '18 U23 World Silver medalist and has been doing well in the seniors since then, so that was a good win.

In the final Yousofi will face the Georgian '18 U23 World Gold medalist, which is the same guy that beat him 4-1 in that competition (Yousofi won Bronze). So it will be good to see if Yousofi has improved, but he has done well whatever happens in the final. 

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At 55kg Naserpour won his first match but then lost by VSU to the Japanese Ogawa ('19 Worlds Bronze), who has made it to the final. So the repechage match is Naserpour vs the Israeli. Shame.

At 63kg Delkhani had some tough matches but is in the final against a Georgian ('19 U23 European Gold, '19 European Bronze). That is a very winnable match for Delkhani.

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