Heil - DiCamillo match (link)

[TBar1977 4,600]

Sheesh, DiCamillo started every action in the whole match.  

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1037724-141-semifinals-dean-heil-oklahoma-state-vs-george-dicamillo-virginia

Edited January 3, 2017 by TBar1977

[Housebuye 2,449]

Wouldn't happen if the exact same scenario played out in reverse. Refs who are influenced by coaches like this have no place on the mat st a high level. Embarrassing.

[tightwaist 390]

Tell me Coach Smith did not influence the officiating here. "We created it. We controlled it."

 

Sheesh, DiCamillo started every action in the whole match.  

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1037724-141-semifinals-dean-heil-oklahoma-state-vs-george-dicamillo-virginia

TBar, I think it was the UVA coaches who made that comment...and rightfully so. I re-watched and Heil took 8 legitimate shots to Heil's 0. Yet, DiCamillo got the only stall warning after Heil pushes him out of bounds. I honestly believe that certain refs are intimidated by the coach in the corner.

[TBar1977 4,600]

TBar, I think it was the UVA coaches who made that comment...and rightfully so. I re-watched and Heil took 8 legitimate shots to Heil's 0. Yet, DiCamillo got the only stall warning after Heil pushes him out of bounds. I honestly believe that certain refs are intimidated by the coach in the corner.

 

 

I agree about the number of shots, and the stall goes against George? Seemed really inconsistent to me. 

[tbert 563]

Tell me Coach Smith did not influence the officiating here. "We created it. We controlled it."

 

Sheesh, DiCamillo started every action in the whole match.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1037724-141-semifinals-dean-heil-oklahoma-state-vs-george-dicamillo-virginia

Also initiated backing to the edge several times

[tightwaist 390]

Also initiated backing to the edge several times

There is no way you can objectively watch this match and not come away with seeing that DiCamillo was clearly the aggressor. Unless you are Heil's parent or relative, or a Cowboy fan who sees through orange colored glasses.

[Billyhoyle 2,500]

The out of bounds stalling call is made regardless of who is the overall aggressor.  It's a punishment for going out of bounds if it is not during an action sequence.   

[boconnell 1,632]

TBar, I think it was the UVA coaches who made that comment...and rightfully so. I re-watched and Heil took 8 legitimate shots to Heil's 0. Yet, DiCamillo got the only stall warning after Heil pushes him out of bounds. I honestly believe that certain refs are intimidated by the coach in the corner.

I didn't think that was Smith.  It didn't sound nearly hick enough.

[tightwaist 390]

The out of bounds stalling call is made regardless of who is the overall aggressor.  It's a punishment for going out of bounds if it is not during an action sequence.   

 

I re-watched it, and at 10:30 Heil is pushing him out of bounds.   If that rule change was made for situations like this, then it needs to be re-visited.  Just go with the push out rule and simplify it. 

[TBar1977 4,600]

If Heil is pushing him out, then they can call Heil for stalling. That is the new rule. They called Stoll for it at Midlands. 

[scrambler 43]

It was Jordan Leen who was talking during the challenge and saying "We created it, and we controlled it"

[boconnell 1,632]

It was Jordan Leen who was talking during the challenge and saying "We created it, and we controlled it"

So T-Bar, you made a whole thread about Coach Smith's comments influencing the officiating.  Do you think Leen was influencing them when it turns out they were his comments?

[TBar1977 4,600]

So T-Bar, you made a whole thread about Coach Smith's comments influencing the officiating.  Do you think Leen was influencing them when it turns out they were his comments?

 

 

If he was, it obviously did not work. I stand corrected btw. I can admit if wrong, and I was wrong. 

[boconnell 1,632]

If he was, it obviously did not work. I stand corrected btw. I can admit if wrong, and I was wrong. 

You're a good guy.  Nothing wrong with being wrong on occasion (or most of the time in your case).

[wrestlingnerd 3,011]

I have no problem with coaches trying to influence refs. That is an important part of their job. The problem here isn't coaching influence, it's not having objective guidelines.

 

The other thread about needing to clarify rule changes is spot on. Folkstyle has gone through a major change with the advent of funk and the resultant scrambling. You simply have to practice doing it and defending it now. It's time to adjust the rules to better define when to stalemate a scramble, when to award a TD, when to award backs, and once the rules for those positions are updated, when to award reversals as well.

 

I would love to join the crowd in tarring and feathering Heil for his totally frustrating performance. But I honestly cannot tell if DiCamillo got screwed or not in that final sequence, and I've now watched it more than half a dozen times.

 

Heil is annoying as hell to watch, but he is damn good in every position, which is pretty rare these days.

Edited January 4, 2017 by wrestlingnerd

[Plasmodium 2,307]

I didn't think that was Smith.  It didn't sound nearly hick enough.

LOL.  I was going to say Smith has a more prominent drawl :)

Anyway, the ref clearly said it was a green challenge.

[gutfirst 220]

some put a time when the questionable call happened.

[LkwdSteve 142]

Heil has never passed "eye tests", high school through college. Yet here he is, an NCAA D1 champion.

 

If there is such a thing as wrestling intelligence, Heil has it.

 

This match? Dicam outwrestled him. And could have gotten a winning call.

[gutfirst 220]

just watched. the scramble at around 6:20? no points every time. wanna give 2 green? no way, red nearly has a crab ride with the half/underhook. wanna give 2 red? no way, green's elevating red's leg keeping red underneath. no points no matter how you look at it if you're objective. 

 

as far as the fall goes. you'd have to be on the other side of camera angle on this vid. it's silly to speculate from this angle.

[TBar1977 4,600]

just watched. the scramble at around 6:20? no points every time. wanna give 2 green? no way, red nearly has a crab ride with the half/underhook. wanna give 2 red? no way, green's elevating red's leg keeping red underneath. no points no matter how you look at it if you're objective. 

 

as far as the fall goes. you'd have to be on the other side of camera angle on this vid. it's silly to speculate from this angle.

 

 

The problem is they gave the points to Heil but none to DiCam (then none in the 3rd either, plus the stall call against DiCam when he was the clear aggressor the entire match) when most would not have seen it that way. 

[gutfirst 220]

don't agree with the the td call at the end of period 2. but through top biased eyes there's an argument for control. i'd wave it off. the stall call in the 3rd is text book ass per the current rules.

 

as far as aggressor the whole match? tough ****. you deserve to not score when you can't finish clean. 

[Plasmodium 2,307]

DiCamillo was stalling, so proper call was made there.  I definitely didn't think that was a TD.   These tight matches are going to catch up to Heil.  

[wrestlingnerd 3,011]

These tight matches are going to catch up to Heil.

The problem with that is that all the top contenders wrestle tight matches, and nobody is better than Heil at winning tight matches. He is an exceptionally smart wrestler who knows his limitations and has the patience to attempt moves only when there's a high percentage opportunity. That makes him boring to watch, but it also makes him an MCAA champion.

 

I really thought McKenna would improve this year and be able to beat Heil, but after watching him so far this year, I now don't see it. Jack, Ashnault, etc. all wrestle close matches against top competition. That plays right into Heil's strengths.

[Plasmodium 2,307]

No doubt he can win the tight matches.  I don't think he is boring to watch at all, as he has amazing scrambling skills.  It seems like Heil's matches boil down to one really competitive scramble.  He is consistently winning those, but going forward he won't be able to win every one of them.

[Tofurky 633]

I wish we had a better angle for that final scramble. I would have liked to have seen George tie it up and send it into OT.

 

As to the takedown at the end of the second period, it certainly was not DiCamillo's control. As someone pointed out back in this thread, somewhere between one and two seconds left in the period, Heil slips in a half with his left hand and with his right hand then secures his own left ankle that DiCamillo was elevating. It also appears that DiCamillo was placing himself firmly in Heil's lap and that the action was coming to a crawl at best. I'm happy I wasn't the one to make that call. No points for Di, borderline for Heil on that call, but there's no question at all that George out wrestled Dean in this match. That was a really good one to watch.