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OSU vs Iowa

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Let's go extreme because well this could very well happen. Let's say wrestler A gets 5 takedowns. Gives up an escape for each takedown, and one in the 2nd period. Its 3rd Period and wrestler A escapes, the score is now 11-6. Wrestler B hits a throw, and holds the guy on his back the whole 3rd period for the win. Are you going to say wrestler B was better? My only point is just because a wrestler wins, doesn't mean he's better.

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Collica seems like a serious underdog. So many people are picking him. Is it because of the freestyle result?

3 vs 2 is never a serious underdog, unless 2 is a world beater just behind someone slightly better.

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Let's go extreme because well this could very well happen. Let's say wrestler A gets 5 takedowns. Gives up an escape for each takedown, and one in the 2nd period. Its 3rd Period and wrestler A escapes, the score is now 11-6. Wrestler B hits a throw, and holds the guy on his back the whole 3rd period for the win. Are you going to say wrestler B was better? My only point is just because a wrestler wins, doesn't mean he's better.

Yes, because wrestler B won the match by throwing wrestler A to his back and holding him down. I don't see how that is an extreme.

Edited by bigmik

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Yes, because wrestler B won the match by throwing wrestler A to his back and holding him down. I don't see how that is an extreme.

So with that example, you are honestly going to pick wrestler B to win the next match? Best out of ten? No way, unless wrestler B is from you're school, or you are delusional, you will likely pick wrestler A. Fine, I'll go extreme, Wrestler A gets 14 takedowns, is up 29-15 and gets thrown, and pinned, you are going to argue that wrestler B was better? I used my first example because it would atleast be a decision, where the better wrestler obviously lost, if you feel otherwise, we'll ill respect you for your opinion, but you opinion is wrong. If Retherford gets caught this year, I'll still say he was the better wrestler, despite me arguing with penn st fans like I do. Edited by maolsen

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So with that example, you are honestly going to pick wrestler B to win the next match? Best out of ten? No way, unless wrestler B is from you're school, or you are delusional, you will likely pick wrestler A. Fine, I'll go extreme, Wrestler A gets 14 takedowns, is up 29-15 and gets thrown, and pinned, you are going to argue that wrestler B was better? I used my first example because it would atleast be a decision, where the better wrestler obviously lost, if you feel otherwise, we'll ill respect you for your opinion, but you opinion is wrong. If Retherford gets caught this year, I'll still say he was the better wrestler, despite me arguing with penn st fans like I do.

Why are you so insistent on calling the losing wrestler "better".?

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So with that example, you are honestly going to pick wrestler B to win the next match? Best out of ten? No way, unless wrestler B is from you're school, or you are delusional, you will likely pick wrestler A. Fine, I'll go extreme, Wrestler A gets 14 takedowns, is up 29-15 and gets thrown, and pinned, you are going to argue that wrestler B was better? I used my first example because it would atleast be a decision, where the better wrestler obviously lost, if you feel otherwise, we'll ill respect you for your opinion, but you opinion is wrong. If Retherford gets caught this year, I'll still say he was the better wrestler, despite me arguing with penn st fans like I do.

As far as future results go. There are a ton of variables to consider. Knowing so little, I wouldn't necessarily pick the guy with most of the takedowns to win the next match. Take, for instance, wrestlers like Schalles and Mills who sometimes intentionally gave up takedowns in order to get the pin. Losing the takedown battle wasn't always very important to them.

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On the flip side though, why would someone's go to be because someone won? There are a lot of variables. That was basically my point. Just because someone won, does not mean they are better. But that was the reason they said Brooks wasnt the favorite, because Boyd split the series with a win. Not because of the variables, not because of what happened in the match, but because he won.

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Literally my only point was that just because someone wins, doesn't mean they are better. The way the points in my example were scored doesnt matter. You could use a guy getting a takedown, then 3 4 point nearfall getting pinned. Just because a guy wins, doesn't mean he is better. In the Boyd vs Brooks series, Brooks looks like he would win the third bout, if you were to only look at their series. But looking at everything else, it is a toss up. 4 vs 5, 1 and 1 against eachother, and both AA'S how is this not a toss up.

Edited by maolsen

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On the flip side though, why would someone's go to be because someone won? There are a lot of variables. That was basically my point. Just because someone won, does not mean they are better. But that was the reason they said Brooks wasnt the favorite, because Boyd split the series with a win. Not because of the variables, not because of what happened in the match, but because he won.

Who said that?  You're now making stuff up and arguing against what you made up.  Nothing like what you're saying exists in this thread.  

 

I said Brooks was not the better man that day.  

 

I later said Boyd is the favorite due to the last 12 months performance (including their wins, losses, the common opponents, the records, the NCAA placings, the rankings).  

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Your first post was about Brooks not being the better man, because they were 1-1. Nothing about that day. You made it obvious you felt that year they were even, and now Boyd has separated himself and is the favorite, because he took 4th, and Brooks took 8th. I could have missed it but you never once said Boyd was better in that match. You said Brooks wasnt better because they were 1-1. Meaning Boyd's win, despite what happened, made it even. Also being ranked 4th and losing to the 5th ranked person/team generally isnt an upset. But you seem to think brooks winning would be. That match up is the definition of a toss up. They are 1-1, they are ranked one ranking apart.

Edited by maolsen

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This is going to be a barn burner! (Potentially literally, depending on how it goes)

 

The two teams that are better than Penn State (without Hall) and they are going neck and neck in a virtual toss up dual.

 

Who says wrestling duals don't matter? Whoever they are, they are wrong here.

 

This one is not to be missed!

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Literally my only point was that just because someone wins, doesn't mean they are better. The way the points in my example were scored doesnt matter. You could use a guy getting a takedown, then 3 4 point nearfall getting pinned. Just because a guy wins, doesn't mean he is better. In the Boyd vs Brooks series, Brooks looks like he would win the third bout, if you were to only look at their series. But looking at everything else, it is a toss up. 4 vs 5, 1 and 1 against eachother, and both AA'S how is this not a toss up.

DF should take you out for beers.  His dad can afford it.

DF never truly lost a match either.  Sometimes he was getting teched and he self pinned.  On paper(or track), that's not different from the other times he lost.  On those occasions, he simply got 'caught'.   Nothing anyone could do under those circumstances.  That's why wrestling is special. The loser is the better man.  :)

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Don't get me wrong. I love wrestling for the very reason that if you decide to start coasting, you can lose. Its exciting, and I'll give credit to the winner, for wrestling to the last minute. Doesn't mean they are the better wrestler, but it means they won.

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Your first post was about Brooks not being the better man, because they were 1-1. Nothing about that day. You made it obvious you felt that year they were even, and now Boyd has separated himself and is the favorite, because he took 4th, and Brooks took 8th. I could have missed it but you never once said Boyd was better in that match. You said Brooks wasnt better because they were 1-1. Meaning Boyd's win, despite what happened, made it even. Also being ranked 4th and losing to the 5th ranked person/team generally isnt an upset. But you seem to think brooks winning would be. That match up is the definition of a toss up. They are 1-1, they are ranked one ranking apart.

Read it all again.  My first post quotes Vak saying Brooks was the better man both times.  I disagreed and said they were 1-1 and that Brooks wasn't the better wrestler that day.  You are fighting against arguments that nobody ever made.

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Read it all again.  My first post quotes Vak saying Brooks was the better man both times.  I disagreed and said they were 1-1 and that Brooks wasn't the better wrestler that day.  You are fighting against arguments that nobody ever made.

You should reread. Your first post was "Better man? Is that a sportsmanship thing? Because they are 1-1 against each other." Where does that say that Boyd was the better wrestler, "that day"

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Boyd and Brooks is the quintessential definition of a toss up. You stated Boyd was the favorite. They are 1-1 against eachother right? They are ranked 4th and 5th by flo right? How is this not a toss up. That is the only point I'm trying to make. This is a toss up. You think Boyd is the favorite.

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You should reread. Your first post was "Better man? Is that a sportsmanship thing? Because they are 1-1 against each other." Where does that say that Boyd was the better wrestler, "that day"

In the quote that is also part of my post.  

 

Then in subsequent posts I make it extremely clear I was talking about that day.  But you're still arguing days after Vak and I stopped, and you're doing it against an argument that was never made.

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I see what Vak said, about him being the better man in both matches. How it went down that can be considered the case. But I will admit i missed the in both matches part. Either way it doesnt matter. You feel Boyd is the favorite, with as close as those two have been, even with ncaa placement, this seems to look like a toss up to anyone who doesn't have a bias. It should be a good match!

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The cowboys beat Iowa this Sunday.. PSU beats Iowa next Friday..Get us 1 step closer to OSU and PSU for dual championship.  we have some great wrestling ahead...Great for the sport.

Getting a little ahead of yourself there, maybe we out to take it one meet at a time. :)

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Even though Brooks lost to Boyd the last match, Brooks was considered the better wrestler based on his offense and takedown count. But since that match, Boyd has wrestled well and did not lose to Dean by all that much the last time out. If Boyd can hold dean to how ever many take downs, that  says that his defense is better and that he will negate what offense Brooks has coming for him this time around.  Yes the match is a toss up, but intuition says Boyd by at least 4 points. Brooks did win Bigs last year, which says alot about his overall potential. But his faltering at NCAAs says a lot about his consistency.

 

Rated 1 -10

 

Brooks

 

Potential : 9 

Strength : 8

Conditioning : 7

Technique : 7

Heart : 8

Consistency : 5

 

total = 44

 

Boyd

 

Potential : 8 

Strength : 8

Conditioning : 8

Technique : 6

Heart : 9

Consistency : 8

 
total = 47

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