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4th PARIS INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENT Brackets anywhere?

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yes, junior world success is a big indicator of senior success... fact is ringer has not shown his junior success (ancient history) will translate to the senior level... not by a long shot... dake took him down at will and ringer's one offensive move was a sloppy finish that got him exposed... nothing he has shown would make him top 10 internationally... not by a long shot...

 

pick and choose about PEDs all you want... fact is they ENHANCE performance not cause injury... that is why they make that banned list... of course there is inherent risk in being an athlete... and of course their is more risk with injury as you train harder and more often, but, to suggest that PEDs cause injury (which you did) is just silly... if that was truly the case and they caused more harm than benefit then they would not be as widely used throughout the athletic world... 

 

also, to suggest no athlete takes PEDs for recovery is silly as well... as athletes get older it is the main reason they take them... their bodies simply can not hold up to the stress of day in day out hard training... i would not argue the main reason an athlete would take them in their late teens or early 20s is for recovery, but, it damn sure is as they approach their 30s and beyond... 

 

i will say, this penis waving is growing tiresome, so, i will leave you with it, but, know i anxiously await improvement by ringer... 

 

What you believe of Ringer is your opinion. You're entitled to it. I don't think we'll ever find out because Dake and JB are both in his way, but based on what I've seen of him, he absolutely is a threat to be ranked internationally--just won't get a chance to prove it since two of our best wrestlers at any weight are ahead of him, with Dake being close to him in age and unlikely to retire anytime soon.

 

You are clinging to a strawman BS argument you made up to try to salvage credibility you no longer have. Read carefully what I said, now repeatedly, and tell me otherwise. Nobody said PEDs don't enhance performance. Nobody said they cause injuries 100% of the time. When people say, smoking causes cancer, they don't actually mean that if you smoke, you'll drop dead immediately. Of course, what they mean is that smokers are much more exposed to lung cancer than non-smokers, and the same is true with injuries for those who take PEDs to get stronger and/or bigger.

 

And then you insert another strawman BS argument. I never said PEDs (some) do not enhance recovery. I specifically said the opposite. What I did say is that i've never met anyone who takes PEDs primarily to recover. Increased recovery is a secondary benefit.

 

Penis waving? If calmly responding to you and calling you an idiot after you remove all doubt is penis waving, I'm guilty. You tiny-dicked and even tinier-brained waste of oxygen. There, happy now that I've turned it into a penis waving contest?

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Didn't Ringer beat the Olympic bronze medalist at the Farrell? Yes he did? So why is it far-fetched to call him among the top 10 in the world?

 

I didn't even say that! All I said was he is a threat for top 10ish status and LJB started waving his mllimeter peter at me as if he expected me to get scared or something.

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So positive remarks only are allowed, unless you're an Olympic champ? Ok then.

 

If you're actually a FAN of the sport, and/or a former participant of the Sport, then I suggest taking a look in the mirror.  If you're not a fan, then you're a critic of the sport.  I stated, in my post, to Analyze the technique and the results, as well as to project who are our (yes... TEAM USA) best prospects and chances at each of the weight.  To minimize the effort put in by these guys, to throw around PED use, when it's unfounded, is just about as bad as all this fake news nonsense spewing from the political pulpits of crooked politicians.  You're either part of the solution, and part of the growth of the sport, in our country, and worldwide, or you're just a humiliating part of the faction that only seeks to downplay and find ill regard in all things that is not you.  

 

So... fire away buddy. I stand for our sport, I stand for Team USA, and I stand for the proliferation and popularity of wrestling worldwide.  What do you stand for?  the constant badgering that Dake is on PEDs, or that Ringer is this/that negative thing, or that the Paris tourney was/is a lesser tourney.  Who cares?  Support them.  Applaud their effort.  Or... get on that mat yourself and go toe to toe with any of those guys in their bracket.  Unless you're secretly Ben Asken, Hendricks, or an actual wrestler that made their mark on the international scene, then be supportive CONSTRUCTIVELY once in a while...

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 To my eye, it looked like Ringer was shocked at how freaking incredibly athletic Dake is, specifically that he was able to counter his best shot and easily blast/lift him off his feet twice in the first minute of the match.  After that, he didn't really know what to try without getting scored on.  I would expect him to take a more Howe like approach if they meet again...not that that has been incredibly fruitful against Kyle either.  For everyone talking about PEDs, you're talking past each-other because you're trying to lump in hundreds of substances with a myriad of mechanisms and side effects like they are all one thing.  That said, if you look into Dake's strength and conditioning program it will be abundantly clear why he consistently improves physically whenever he is healthy.  As far as injuries, wrestling is hard and most people just retire early b/c they aren't able to come back like Dake. 

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Or that the Paris tourney was/is a lesser tourney.  Who cares?  Support them.  Applaud their effort.  

It is a lesser tourney, and here's the thing.  When USAW sends a contingent of 30 to Paris and 3 to Yarygin, that's a trend some of us fans find disturbing. It makes sense for Dake coming off of an injury.  However, why is David Taylor going there to wrestle Perry in the Finals?  Is he coming off of an injury too? Why is Tony Ramos going there when he was the world team rep for 2 years, and almost was for 3? Isn't Jimmy Kennedy an experienced vet with some pretty nice international wins?  Why is he in Paris?  

 

Is the point of this tournament for them to wrestle or is it a vacation?  That's a legitimate question. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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If you're actually a FAN of the sport, and/or a former participant of the Sport, then I suggest taking a look in the mirror.  If you're not a fan, then you're a critic of the sport.  I stated, in my post, to Analyze the technique and the results, as well as to project who are our (yes... TEAM USA) best prospects and chances at each of the weight.  To minimize the effort put in by these guys, to throw around PED use, when it's unfounded, is just about as bad as all this fake news nonsense spewing from the political pulpits of crooked politicians.  You're either part of the solution, and part of the growth of the sport, in our country, and worldwide, or you're just a humiliating part of the faction that only seeks to downplay and find ill regard in all things that is not you.  

 

So... fire away buddy. I stand for our sport, I stand for Team USA, and I stand for the proliferation and popularity of wrestling worldwide.  What do you stand for?  the constant badgering that Dake is on PEDs, or that Ringer is this/that negative thing, or that the Paris tourney was/is a lesser tourney.  Who cares?  Support them.  Applaud their effort.  Or... get on that mat yourself and go toe to toe with any of those guys in their bracket.  Unless you're secretly Ben Asken, Hendricks, or an actual wrestler that made their mark on the international scene, then be supportive CONSTRUCTIVELY once in a while...

 

Yeah but I agree with you for the most part, we both stand for the same things. I just find questionable that someone must be an elite wrestler to express some criticism, that's all.

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What you believe of Ringer is your opinion. You're entitled to it. I don't think we'll ever find out because Dake and JB are both in his way, but based on what I've seen of him, he absolutely is a threat to be ranked internationally--just won't get a chance to prove it since two of our best wrestlers at any weight are ahead of him, with Dake being close to him in age and unlikely to retire anytime soon.

 

You are clinging to a strawman BS argument you made up to try to salvage credibility you no longer have. Read carefully what I said, now repeatedly, and tell me otherwise. Nobody said PEDs don't enhance performance. Nobody said they cause injuries 100% of the time. When people say, smoking causes cancer, they don't actually mean that if you smoke, you'll drop dead immediately. Of course, what they mean is that smokers are much more exposed to lung cancer than non-smokers, and the same is true with injuries for those who take PEDs to get stronger and/or bigger.

 

And then you insert another strawman BS argument. I never said PEDs (some) do not enhance recovery. I specifically said the opposite. What I did say is that i've never met anyone who takes PEDs primarily to recover. Increased recovery is a secondary benefit.

 

Penis waving? If calmly responding to you and calling you an idiot after you remove all doubt is penis waving, I'm guilty. You tiny-dicked and even tinier-brained waste of oxygen. There, happy now that I've turned it into a penis waving contest?

PEDs don't cause injuries... 

 

congratulations, you sir are a credit to internet forums everywhere...

 

i still anxiously await that improvement from ringer that will make him top 10 internationally... 

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PEDs don't cause injuries...

 

congratulations, you sir are a credit to internet forums everywhere...

 

i still anxiously await that improvement from ringer that will make him top 10 internationally...

Except when they do, which is quite frequently.

 

Ringer may very well be there already, considering he has a win over someone above that level already. I suppose that doesn't matter to you since by your logic, Dake too is no threat to crack the top 10 either since he's not our rep at 74. We get it, buddy.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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LJB only watches wrestling through the lens that allows him to bash folkstyle.  Search his posts and I bet you find more insulting folkstyle than praising freestyle.  He goes to the college board for no reason than to bash college wrestling.  He resents the american folkstyle system (not a bad opinion by itself) but in his effort to justify the resentment and belittle folkstyle, he eagerly searches for facts that will support his crusade.  I don't think he makes up facts or is wrong in his use of them, he just gleefully jumps on any that present themselves.  Dieringer getting beat was like Xmas for him.

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I hate to be a relativist, but  can we all just agree that you both are partly right and move on?  Some PEDs can contribute to injury risk if not taken properly (think the roider at the gym whose muscles are out of control).  Others can help recovery (think HGH for recovery..Remember when it took 3 months for Adrian Peterson to come back from a torn ACL and then was MVP?) 

 

Sure, Dierenger has some wins that would suggest he may belong in the top 10 of international wrestlers.  Just like in the past guys like Nick Simmons, Reece Humphreys, etc have done the same.  But LJB's point is also true that he is nowhere close to a threat to medal on the international level, and it's not too difficult to find 10 guys at 74 kg in the world better than he is (We know for a fact there are 2 in the U.S., and probably 3 or 4 in Russia alone).  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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why would a folk product getting beat by another folk product cause me glee?

 

but yes, i abhor folk... boring meathead wrestling that is the antithesis of the real styles...

 

and to be clear, i prefer greco over free as well, but, i don't expect many of you to get that either... 

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why would a folk product getting beat by another folk product cause me glee?

 

but yes, i abhor folk... boring meathead wrestling that is the antithesis of the real styles...

 

and to be clear, i prefer greco over free as well, but, i don't expect many of you to get that either... 

I loved competing in Greco.  I loved coaching it more than any other style.  I don't like watching it.  

 

I think if Dake had lost you would have happily told us he was ruined by folkstyle, so this matchup was win/win for you.  

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i was actually very curious about the match, but, after actually watching it, was left very unimpressed... the fact of the matter is that ringer had absolutely nothing for dake... couldn't stop dake's offense and had none of his own... it just highlighted how another one of our younger folk superstars will not be able to compete on the international stage because his best years were wasted in college learning how not to wrestle...

 

that is not a win/win for me... it is a lose/lose for all americans who have international aspirations...   

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Billy, I know you're trying to be diplomatic, but in so doing, you too are wrong. Please name the compound (any PED) whose principal effect on the human body is enhanced recovery. Not side effect or secondary effect. Principal effect. LJB, in his omniscience, claims all PEDs' primary benefit is enhanced recovery. I am dying to know even one compound for which that is true. HGH is not one of them, as a legion of bodybuilders everywhere will attest (sure, it helps you recover faster too).

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Bocon, thanks for the context. I now remember. LJB is the guy who is raising two future Katelins to prove to the world that folkstyle sucks donkey balls. I didn't make the association until your reminder.

 

LJB, best of luck. The future Alex Dieringers of America are quaking in their boots.

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Didn't Ringer beat the Olympic bronze medalist at the Farrell? Yes he did? So why is it far-fetched to call him among the top 10 in the world?

Yep - Aliev..8-0 same guy that beat Dake.

I've seen ringer do this before ..Not worried.

I think just about any guy could of taken him down in that match

Edited by tbert

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how do muscles get bigger and stronger?

by having their strands broken and repaired... if that is not recovery i'm not sure what is...

 

your mass building and muscle endurance is a function of muscle recovery... PEDs help your body repair itself and allow you to train harder and longer... 

 

yes, that is a generalization... but the fact of the matter is PED use does not cause injury... it enhances performance... as per the definition... 

 

can the long term use of some PEDs be harmful?

of course they can... there is no genetic free lunch... people way smarter than you or i can prove that to anyone...

 

PEDs cause injury about like water will kill you... i mean, if you drink too much water you will die, right?

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Bocon, thanks for the context. I now remember. LJB is the guy who is raising two future Katelins to prove to the world that folkstyle sucks donkey balls. I didn't make the association until your reminder.

 

LJB, best of luck. The future Alex Dieringers of America are quaking in their boots.

keep patting yourself on the back...

 

internet tough guys are cheering your screen name as we speak...

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Billy, I know you're trying to be diplomatic, but in so doing, you too are wrong. Please name the compound (any PED) whose principal effect on the human body is enhanced recovery. Not side effect or secondary effect. Principal effect. LJB, in his omniscience, claims all PEDs' primary benefit is enhanced recovery. I am dying to know even one compound for which that is true. HGH is not one of them, as a legion of bodybuilders everywhere will attest (sure, it helps you recover faster too).

 

Ok, so no disagreement on Dierenger?  Glad I have ended that one.

 

To end this discussion on whether they cause/heal injuries: 

 

Apparently there's a clinical trial ongoing on whether HGH helps ligament repair. 

 

http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/web-exclusives/2016/february/medsport-studies-hgh-acl-repair

https://medicine.umich.edu/dept/orthopaedic-surgery/christopher-mendias-phd-atc

 

Maybe you know more than this Prof, or maybe it's possible there are PEDs that help with recovery.  There is "anecdotal" evidence saying it does, but I think this is the first controlled study to determine the answer. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Ok, so no disagreement on Dierenger? Glad I have ended that one.

 

To end this discussion on whether they cause/heal injuries:

 

Apparently there's a clinical trial ongoing on whether HGH helps ligament repair.

 

http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/web-exclusives/2016/february/medsport-studies-hgh-acl-repair

https://medicine.umich.edu/dept/orthopaedic-surgery/christopher-mendias-phd-atc

 

Maybe you know more than this Prof, or maybe it's possible there are PEDs that help with recovery. There is "anecdotal" evidence saying it does, but I think this is the first controlled study to determine the answer.

There can't be much disagreement on Dieringer because it's an opinion whether he's a threat to be top 10ish or not. I don't agree with Papa Karelin (or with you if you're taking his position), but I'm not going to lambaste him for it.

 

As for your study that doesn't prove very much (yet), I never said PEDs can't help the healing process. One of the companies I'm involved with administered anabolic steroids to help trauma victims. I think I might know a thing or two about how they might help heal.

 

But that is not their principal function, period. The main active ingredient for Viagra also has a primary function that is not giving limp dicks like LJB the opportunity to enjoy life a little. Drugs can be used for purposes other than their primary function.

 

But pease continue your search for the magic compound that primarily enhances healing with no side effects and prove me wrong. I'm dying to know. I'll then find you a billion dollars of investment capital and we will both become Forbes top 10. We'll then have found the fountain of youth.

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