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aknipp

Nebraska forfeits 2 against Indiana

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NU forfieted two weights today, 174 and 184. I cannot understand that. Unless there is an issue (flu etc) Barnes really needed it for seeding.  Maybe Manning felt why take the chance with Dudley losing but I don't buy that.

 

Any idea?

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Our system is designed around looking out for the individual in each outing, not the team.  The team results are irrelevant.

 

For this reason, forfeits don't phase me.  Don't get me wrong, I hate them but they are logical given the incentives in the current system.

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Our system is designed around looking out for the individual in each outing, not the team.  The team results are irrelevant.

 

For this reason, forfeits don't phase me.  Don't get me wrong, I hate them but they are logical given the incentives in the current system.

 

I'm dealing with many insults to my character over on the Hawkeye board for daring to criticize Brands holding Cory Clark out.  I hate them, and I hate the system that encourages them, even though it very much does encourage them.  That said, just because the system encourages them, I will still rage against the dying of that particular light.

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I'm dealing with many insults to my character over on the Hawkeye board for daring to criticize Brands holding Cory Clark out.  I hate them, and I hate the system that encourages them, even though it very much does encourage them.  That said, just because the system encourages them, I will still rage against the dying of that particular light.

  Certainly agree.  

 

Since Dudley beat Jackson at the Midlands, will that match be counted? Makes it even bigger reason to hold Dudley out. 

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I'm dealing with many insults to my character over on the Hawkeye board for daring to criticize Brands holding Cory Clark out.  I hate them, and I hate the system that encourages them, even though it very much does encourage them.  That said, just because the system encourages them, I will still rage against the dying of that particular light.

 

I understand it.  I hate it too.

 

But coaches are paid to win championships.  And our system says you look out for the individual and shouldn't be concerned about duals if you want to ensure you're positioned for championships.

 

The reality is that no program is able to pay their bills off dual attendance so they aren't really beholden to the fans and even the ones with the best attendance have fans that are more concerned with an NCAA title and have lobbied against changing the incentives.

 

When I put myself into the seat of coaches then of course I am holding a guy out if he is banged up even if he could compete.  There is no doubt that I am not going to pull a guy out of redshirt to try to win some duals for the team.  

 

Honestly, I think college coaches actually try to do right by fans over all.  If I were coaching, I would use the perverse incentives to my advantage and exploit them even more than is done.  I believe coaches haven't even scratched the surface in what can be done to gain an advantage. 

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Huskers were on a road trip and may have suffered injuries at Purdue Friday night.  Agree totally about railing against forfeits and skipping big matchups simply because in college wrestling duals do not matter (thanks, Cael).

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Perhaps in conference duals you count every missed match by an established starter for conference tournament seeding purposes as a loss?   No if ands or buts, if you miss a conference dual it's a loss for seeding.  Totally unfair and you can have a situation where a Zain Retherford type guy misses a MSU dual and loses his #1 seed but if you don't enforce something the system will continue to be abused. 

 

Of course that could backfire and a legit guy who misses half the conference season like BoJo gets a #8 seed and screws everything up.  So I don't really like the idea myself, but I took the time to type it out so I might as well hit Post. 

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Gantry,

 

I disagree with your premis. It is not fair to the other wrestlers in the weight to not seed a ZR #1 if he were to miss a dual.

 

 

If Snyder were to miss all of the Big 10 duals, would it be fair to the other HWTs to draw him in? How would you like to be the #1 seed in your scenario and draw Snyder 1st round?

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I'm dealing with many insults to my character over on the Hawkeye board for daring to criticize Brands holding Cory Clark out.  I hate them, and I hate the system that encourages them, even though it very much does encourage them.  That said, just because the system encourages them, I will still rage against the dying of that particular light.

Dylan Thomas allusion!  Score!

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When he is repping the US in meets like the Yarigan, Snyder fully deserves a pass in collegiate duals.  I think the fans are cheated when guys are protected by sitting them or a team won't at least throw a body out to face a great guy the crowd has come to see.

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Gantry,

 

I disagree with your premis. It is not fair to the other wrestlers in the weight to not seed a ZR #1 if he were to miss a dual.

 

 

If Snyder were to miss all of the Big 10 duals, would it be fair to the other HWTs to draw him in? How would you like to be the #1 seed in your scenario and draw Snyder 1st round?

 

That makes two of us who disagree with it.  It's basically the only way I could think of to "fix" the problem without making duals matter. 

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3 forfeits (133, 174, 184) in a BIG dual. Pathetic.

 

Feel terrible for the wrestling fans that made the time commitment to travel to this dual for what ? 7 matches. And 184 was obviously the marquee matchup of the dual. Sigh.

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Don't remember Danny Gable being held out. Nor John Smith, Cael, Brands, Schultz bros and so many others.

Put them on the mat and let them wrestle unless injury needs time to heal or possibly the match will be so lopsided the coach wants to get another wrestler some experience. If he does that it should be known ahead of time.

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I have respect for Mark Manning and the NU program but this is kinda ridiculous. Pack your back ups if you're plannin on being that short handed.

Most backups (including Nebraska's at 184 I believe) are redshirting and since the incentives are such, coaches aren't going to pull a redshirt for something as meaningless as a dual just to fill a lineup.

 

The typical program has a roster cap and then they hold out all their freshman for strategic development so they forget duals and the kids competent opens and then in two years half those kids that had the year redshirting aren't even with the team anymore.

 

(Posted via mobile)

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Nebraska rarely forfeits.

 

I don't recall the last time they did, but it's not often. I'd guess (because they were on the road and the Purdue match was first), that there were injuries and their other 74/84's didn't travel.

 

Pepple (IU's 133) wrestled Friday as well.

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I hate the forfeits.  But the current system rewards ducking guys.  You could argue by the facts that Manning did a better coaching job this weekend by ducking guys than John Smith did putting them on the mat.  

 

I think when ducking matches is clearly rewarded, you should get creative about changing how you do things.  

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Manning will certainly duck. He sat C. Jensen versus Medbery two weeks ago. Both heavy's were announced which made it clear that Manning was sitting Jensen versus Medbery.

 

How do you penalize teams for doing it? How do you validate its an actual injury versus ducking? It seems to be getting worse each year and it's the one thing that I really don't enjoy about the sport.

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I hate the forfeits.  But the current system rewards ducking guys.  You could argue by the facts that Manning did a better coaching job this weekend by ducking guys than John Smith did putting them on the mat.  

 

I think when ducking matches is clearly rewarded, you should get creative about changing how you do things.  

 

I think this is what needs to be addressed. When there is no reward, the coaches wont put it into play. Now, it is seen as an ok thing to do, among the coaches.

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I know a way to stop guys from dodging good opponents for seeding purposes, and it's not hard to accomplish at all and requires no crazy formula to determine who gets punished and rewarded for dodging matches.

 

Eliminate seeding from the NCAAs. Not as crazy as it sounds, it works like a Champ at the Geary Tournament in Oklahoma.

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As much as I appreciate J. Smith putting his guys on the mat vs Mizzou last week, 3 who could have protected seeds (149, 157, 165) all lost to the MU guys.  And in all 3 of those cases the MU wrestler will probably jump over them now.  There's still quite a bit of the season left, but stuff like that unfortunately helps bolster the argument in favor of sitting guys.

Edited by KCMO2

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