Kyle Snyder's Example

[Tofurky 600]

Thinking of Snyder's impressive ascension to numero uno at the 211 pounds weight class on the World stage, does anyone else think we soon might begin seeing more college student-wrestlers following his example by breaking up the collegiate season with some Free or, in the rare case, Greco tournaments around the globe? The only person I could see doing that right now would be Spencer Lee, but kids aren't becoming less college ready, they're only becoming more and more college ready coming out of high school. Are there any thoughts on if coaches such as Sanderson, Brands, Smith, Jones, et al would allow for the same sort of thing that is going on these days in Columbus?

[Pinnum 799]

No, I think he is an anomaly.

 

Even the best collegiates are still pushed during the season and very few are making the national team, let alone winning world medals. 

[LJB 1,616]

more kids are beginning to put international results as a priority over collegiate success... it is definitely a small group, but, the winds of change are upon us...

 

see kamal bey and g'angelo hancock opting to forego college and focus on greco purely... they both recently received scholarships to attend daymar university... they were specifically chosen by USA wrestling for the scholarships...

[TBar1977 3,948]

Thinking of Snyder's impressive ascension to numero uno at the 211 pounds weight class on the World stage, does anyone else think we soon might begin seeing more college student-wrestlers following his example by breaking up the collegiate season with some Free or, in the rare case, Greco tournaments around the globe? The only person I could see doing that right now would be Spencer Lee, but kids aren't becoming less college ready, they're only becoming more and more college ready coming out of high school. Are there any thoughts on if coaches such as Sanderson, Brands, Smith, Jones, et al would allow for the same sort of thing that is going on these days in Columbus?

 

 

 

Zain Retherford competed at Schultz during his redshirt year. Nick Lee is on campus but wrestling only for NLWC, not Penn State and he wrestled in NYC event this fall. I think Nico may have done one freestyle event as well, but not during the collegiate season. Multiple guys, of course, wrestle Universities and Juniors. 

[Gantry 1,708]

Tomasello and Gwiz wrestled a freestyle event during the season last year too, think the Farrell. 

[Pinnum 799]

more kids are beginning to put international results as a priority over collegiate success... it is definitely a small group, but, the winds of change are upon us...

 

see kamal bey and g'angelo hancock opting to forego college and focus on greco purely... they both recently received scholarships to attend daymar university... they were specifically chosen by USA wrestling for the scholarships...

 

Haven't Greco kids been doing this for years?

 

It was the whole point of Northern Michigan University's program, right?

[Tofurky 600]

more kids are beginning to put international results as a priority over collegiate success... it is definitely a small group, but, the winds of change are upon us...

 

see kamal bey and g'angelo hancock opting to forego college and focus on greco purely... they both recently received scholarships to attend daymar university... they were specifically chosen by USA wrestling for the scholarships...

 

I cannot speak to Hancock's situation, but Kamal Bey may have opted to forego the traditional college route due to his high school academics more than his choosing to go to the OTC. That was a pretty big story around Illinois when he coudn't defend his state title as a junior and then left for the OTC before his senior year.

[LJB 1,616]

Haven't Greco kids been doing this for years?

 

It was the whole point of Northern Michigan University's program, right?

yes and no... this is an entirely different situation... this is a university giving USA wrestling a schorlarship to hand out as they see fit... 

 

also, there is a school in arkansas that started a greco program... scholarships for kids to train greco exclusively just like NM...

[LJB 1,616]

I cannot speak to Hancock's situation, but Kamal Bey may have opted to forego the traditional college route due to his high school academics more than his choosing to go to the OTC. That was a pretty big story around Illinois when he coudn't defend his state title as a junior and then left for the OTC before his senior year.

i know that bey had a rough family situation... i also know he was planning on playing football in college (assuming he went) because he hated folk so much... he did graduate HS... that kid is a freak and a very bright individual... he obviosuly made the right choice for him and it illustrates that there are alternative paths for athletes that don't fit the traditional american folk mold...

 

i could not be more excited...

[Billyhoyle 2,025]

Tofurky, I absolutely think this will start to be a trend.  In fact, I started a thread on it a year ago.  

 

See:  http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/11144-the-tosukyle-snyder-blueprint/?hl=blueprint

 

Here is my prediction: Everything depends on what happens with Mark Hall and Spencer Lee.  I think tOSU is being extremely innovative with Snyder, and if focusing on folkstyle ends up hurting Hall and Lee like it did with Metcalf, Taylor, and Dierenger, I think the result is more elite recruits will actively seek a university that will allow a limited folkstyle season with some overseas competition.  

 

Personally, I think Retherford, Cox, and Mark Hall should all be doing this right now.  I wouldn't be surprised of a good showing at Junior worlds this summer leads Zeke to do the same with Zahid Valencia (does he have another junior year of eligibility or is he a senior now?).  

Edited January 30, 2017 by Billyhoyle

[de4856 361]

Well I believe that Kyle is a phenomenal athlete, the training, his work ethic, and his tough mental outlook, are some of what make him the great wrestler he is. I think Kyle's goal to become great is what lead him down the path he is now on.

Hopefully many other wrestlers look at Kyle and try and emulate this formula. I would just love it if USA Wrestling had a bunch of Kyle's running around thumping their International competition.

[Tofurky 600]

Billyhoyle, I am wondering if the Zains, Nolfs, Halls, Valencias and others are requesting these opportunities from their coaches, but are being shot down. Personally, I think the approach of it being student-athlete-driven is where we may begin to see more embracing of the international styles in the United States at the collegiate level. Just from my perspective, that's a pretty cool potential transition away from the top down approach to coaching and sports in this country.

[Billyhoyle 2,025]

Billyhoyle, I am wondering if the Zains, Nolfs, Halls, Valencias and others are requesting these opportunities from their coaches, but are being shot down. Personally, I think the approach of it being student-athlete-driven is where we may begin to see more embracing of the international styles in the United States at the collegiate level. Just from my perspective, that's a pretty cool potential transition away from the top down approach to coaching and sports in this country.

I have no knowledge or inside information.  If I had to guess though, it would be that these athletes are putting their trust in the coaches. After all, many of them have Olympic gold medals themselves.  The current system worked well for Smith, Brands, and Sanderson, so I doubt they see a reason to adjust to this hybrid schedule. I see guys like Ryan and possibly Jones as innovators, and if they continue to produce international success, more and more recruits whose goals are olympic gold and not just NCAA titles will opt for this hybrid approach. Roselli could potentially do the same if he were to get a international level recruit

 

I could also see guys like Stieber and Snyder adopting this approach as they transition to coaching.  

 

Snyder, Hall, and Spencer Lee are the three most accomplished wrestlers to compete in folkstyle in a long time (Cejudo and Pico both opted out). I hope all three will develop into international studs.  

[Zebra 545]

He's one of those 1 in a million guys and his example is his and his alone. Most people in life cannot and should not follow those examples. 

[LJB 1,616]

except he's not... as evidenced by two others already mentioned in this thread and the examples of others as well...

 

and you are right zebra, most people should not... as evidenced by message boards all over, most people are extremely average with small views and will never be more than what they are told to be...

 

but, no one great has ever followed your advice...

[Zebra 545]

except he's not... as evidenced by two others already mentioned in this thread and the examples of others as well...

 

and you are right zebra, most people should not... as evidenced by message boards all over, most people are extremely average with small views and will never be more than what they are told to be...

 

but, no one great has ever followed your advice...

 

Well there are 330,000,000 people in this country so mathematically three people is still less than predicted by the " One in a million" moniker.

 

The truth is most people are average by definition (at least in wrestling) and yet may be that "One in a Million" person in another endeavor ultimately ending up extremely successful in spite of their average wrestling skill. I mean wrestling skill is what we're talking about on a wrestling message board, not overall characteristics and lifetime success. 

 

 

BTW the term "One in a Million" in this context was being used euphemistically and not literally. It could in fact be that he's 1 in ten million, or even 1 in every 250,000; none of us know for sure. I thought that was obvious.   

 

.  

[Zebra 545]

Oh and "great" is a subjective term, and greatness is relative to your ability so you cannot say that with certainty. 

[Billyhoyle 2,025]

Oh and "great" is a subjective term, and greatness is relative to your ability so you cannot say that with certainty. 

Nobody is saying everybody should do this.  However, I think every year we may see one or two kids who would be greatly benefitted by it.  If you look at the younger age groups, there is a ton of talent.  Gable Steveson is the most notable example.  At this point he may be further along than Snyder was at his age.  Vitali Arajau is another.  Yianni D is a third.  We have an unprecedented number of athletes focusing on and succeeding at international wrestling at an early age.  

[Zebra 545]

Nobody is saying everybody should do this.  However, I think every year we may see one or two kids who would be greatly benefitted by it.  If you look at the younger age groups, there is a ton of talent.  Gable Steveson is the most notable example.  At this point he may be further along than Snyder was at his age.  Vitali Arajau is another.  Yianni D is a third.  We have an unprecedented number of athletes focusing on and succeeding at international wrestling at an early age.  

I never said they shouldn't I have just implied the vast majority should not. Now if you are, or at least have a high probability of being a "One in a Million" wrestler you should explore that and when you either find out you are, or reach your limit, you need to make the necessary life decision which benefits you the most. 

 

This is true of all parts of life not just wrestling. I stopped at two Master's Degrees because a PhD was not going to benefit me enough to justify the cost in dollars and time. Although it would be cool to add DR to my business cards.  

[ironmonkey 137]

I don't think it is a model that would be beneficial to college wrestling if several people each year did it.  The arguments for it are almost desperate in their attempt to shut down any alternative viewpoints.  The results speak for themselves right now so there is no need to fear or attack fans who think it would change the way you define team and/or the regular season.  Right now, in this instance, it is working very well for both the individual and the team.  That doesn't mean it will in most cases though.    

[LJB 1,616]

in my mind, there is not enough financial incentive in wrestling to follow any path that you do not absolutely want to... with that being said, if you love to wrestle and want to forge your own path you should 100% do it whether or not you have snyder's capabilities/success...

[PapaBearSLIM 48]

I cannot speak to Hancock's situation, but Kamal Bey may have opted to forego the traditional college route due to his high school academics more than his choosing to go to the OTC. That was a pretty big story around Illinois when he coudn't defend his state title as a junior and then left for the OTC before his senior year.

You can't speak on Bey's situation with much actual knowledge either, Tom. So just stop.

[WillieBoy 713]

Kyle Snyder is an exception because he is a World Champion before he graduates. He gets special consideration because of it.

If you have a kid who gets a World Title or Olympic Gold while he still has college eligibility left you can give him special treatment as well.

John Smith came back to wrestle for Oklahoma State his Senior season after winning a World Title. He did not take time off but most likely could have for a major Freestyle tournament.

 

It is up to the wrestler and his coaches. You win the World Title and you are in another category. Why not? Whatever you do helps the school with publicity and helps the team even if you don't wrestle every dual.

 

Snyder coming back with a Yarygin title is more impressive than anything he will do in the dual season at the Ohio State University.

 

So few will ever be in this group that I don't think most fans or coaches will worry about it.

[silver-medal 670]

This is one of those impossible hypotheticals but it would be really interesting if high school wrestlers were suddenly given a choice:

 

--They could wrestle for a college that competes in Freestyle

--They could choose a school that specialized in Greco

--They could stick with folkstyle

 

Prediction:  Folkstyle would nearly diasppear in about ten years with most wrestlers choosing freestyle but a talented group of hard core competitors choosing greco.  

 

T

[wrestlingnerd 2,753]

I don't think it's that impossible to forecast what would happen. Ask the top 100 or so kids what they prefer and I'd bet the majority would choose FS. The more elite you get, the more prominent the preference for FS. Thanks to Flo, we get insights into the top HS kids very regularly and during interviews, I've noticed a noticeable preference for freestyle.