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IronChef

Why doesn't this ref know the rules?

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... an assistant ref would have been helpful in that/those situations.... then the assistant could shake his head "yes" in total agreement with the call,  or non-call, even if he didn't agree with it, because that is what assistant ref's do .....

 

That was two different refs in the same dual. I assume they were alternating bouts as head/2nd.

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That was two different refs in the same dual. I assume they were alternating bouts as head/2nd.

 

No, I watched it again on ESPN3.... it was the same head ref for those two bouts (Heil/Eierman and Collica/Mayes).  He also had an assistant official.  After watching the replay I agree with the OP...he really did blow the call on the illegal figure four by Eierman.

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That was two different refs in the same dual. I assume they were alternating bouts as head/2nd.

That would be highly unusual, never seen that, doubt if allowed. Moreover pretty certain it was same ref making the bad caution calls the entire meet.

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That would be highly unusual, never seen that, doubt if allowed. Moreover pretty certain it was same ref making the bad caution calls the entire meet.

 

 

It was done a few years ago. I had forgotten that 2-3 years back they reversed the policy and said just one as head for the dual. Not sure if that's by conference or overall. Think nationwide.

 

HS does do that and I had seen a few bouts recently (including tonight) where they alternated.

Edited by gimpeltf

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If these situations occurred from top/bottom, they are legal holds.  Same position in neutral is not legal.  So you need more context than just the photographs.

These were obviously neutral position & pretty sure stated (or implied) as such in the first couple posts.

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These were obviously neutral position & pretty sure stated (or implied) as such in the first couple posts.

 

And, in the first photo, the ref is signalling that they're in the neutral position.

(Either that or he's starting to raise his arms to signal a 6-point TD (i.e., touchdown, not takedown). indifferent0003.gif

 

Op1gLSv.jpg

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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The ref is indicating no control in the top photo, so they are obviously in neutral.

In the second photo, can we tell this by the ref's positioning?  I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

 

The same hold, in the same position, is sometimes legal (if it occurs as a continuation of mat wrestling) and sometimes not (if it is initiated from neutral).  Why is that?

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The ref is indicating no control in the top photo, so they are obviously in neutral.

In the second photo, can we tell this by the ref's positioning?  I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

 

The same hold, in the same position, is sometimes legal (if it occurs as a continuation of mat wrestling) and sometimes not (if it is initiated from neutral).  Why is that?

 

I believe the rationale is that the latter has more potential for putting undue pressure against the opponent's head or neck.

 

Interestingly, although we commonly refer to the latter as an illegal hold, its actually a technical violation.  Therefore, a wrestler using a figure 4 around the head from neutral during a takedown wouldn't be disqualified if he injured his opponent so that he couldn't continue.  Rather, the opponent would have to injury default to the wrestler who applied the figure 4.  (Of course, if the ref thought it was intentionally done to injure his opponent, he could call flagrant conduct and disqualify the offending wrestler on that basis.)

 

Note:  The above is one of the situations described in the NCAA rulebook under Rule 5.10.

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... an assistant ref would have been helpful in that/those situations.... then the assistant could shake his head "yes" in total agreement with the call, or non-call, even if he didn't agree with it, because that is what assistant ref's do .....

Excellent! Wish they would at least give them a rolled up towel, But they have a lot of responsibility just keeping 180 degrees opposite of the head ref.

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