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MSU158

St. John's close matches....

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Everyone who keeps spouting that he wrestles a lot of close matches needs to look at the scores of his matches this season. Last night was his SECOND close match of the season. Demas, who appears to be his match-up kryptonite, is the only other wrestler to keep a match close. His style makes you think his matches are closer than they actually are. The reason for this is simple. He is primarily a counter wrestler. The more you open up on him the more he will score. You may think the matches are close but he still wins 6-2, 6-0, 8-4, etc. As in almost any other weight class there are a couple guys capable, but not likely, of knocking off the number 1 ranked guy. The returning 3rd place finisher taking the match to the end with him should not be a surprise. However, other than Ruth and maybe Oliver, I wouldn't bet on anyone to win their weight class before I would bet on St. John. He is most definitely a clear favorite in March.

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I'll take McDonough, Logan, Oliver, Ruth, Kilgore before I take DSJ to win. 157 is pretty wide open, he's a favorite but not a lock.

 

McDonough has Delgado, who has proven he can beat him, and Megaludis right on his heels. Waters is an additional wildcard. I would really like to see him win, and think he will, but I think he is more likely to lose to one of the above mentioned wrestlers. Logan has Ramos. Logan is the better rounded of the 2 but he can not be off in any way since Ramos will attack for the FULL 7 minutes. I 100% would bet Logan over St. John to reach the finals but I think Ramos has a better chance to beat Stieber than anyone has to beat St. John. Kilgore was hard for me not to put ahead of St. John. The problem is Wright is such a wild card and with them not wrestling each other prior to NCAA's it is hard for me to gauge how he would match up with Wright.

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He is most definitely a clear favorite in March.

 

Dylan Alton proved last night he is RIGHT there with him. I'm not sure how one can say a clear favorite after that close of a win. If D Altons stamina is just a tad better, he pulls last night out IN Carver. I do agree DSJ is the favorite, but not as clear cut as you claim.

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He is most definitely a clear favorite in March.

 

Dylan Alton proved last night he is RIGHT there with him. I'm not sure how one can say a clear favorite after that close of a win. If D Altons stamina is just a tad better, he pulls last night out IN Carver. I do agree DSJ is the favorite, but not as clear cut as you claim.

 

Last night was the first takedown Alton has against St. John in multiple matches and it was VERY close to not being one. I like Alton quite a bit and him winning would actually help my chances to win in a family fantasy type league we have had going for quite a few years. I simply see this match up going in favor of St. John every time they wrestle.

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He is most definitely a clear favorite in March.

 

Dylan Alton proved last night he is RIGHT there with him. I'm not sure how one can say a clear favorite after that close of a win. If D Altons stamina is just a tad better, he pulls last night out IN Carver. I do agree DSJ is the favorite, but not as clear cut as you claim.

When you are 3-0 against a guy you are kinda the clear favorite.

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He is most definitely a clear favorite in March.

 

Dylan Alton proved last night he is RIGHT there with him. I'm not sure how one can say a clear favorite after that close of a win. If D Altons stamina is just a tad better, he pulls last night out IN Carver. I do agree DSJ is the favorite, but not as clear cut as you claim.

When you are 3-0 against a guy you are kinda the clear favorite.

 

Wrestling is a sport of... The more you see someone, the better your chances. Sorry, but 1 point victories don't point to a clear favorite. Yes, a favorite, but it's nothing I would bank on. A clear favorite is someone I clearly bank on without any doubt.

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Wrestling is a sport of... The more you see someone, the better your chances. Sorry, but 1 point victories don't point to a clear favorite. Yes, a favorite, but it's nothing I would bank on. A clear favorite is someone I clearly bank on without any doubt.

 

Clear favorite is FAR from without a doubt. Hazewinkle was a clear favorite his senior year and lost. Hendricks was also a clear favorite his senior year and Perry finally beat him. It does NOT mean you are unbeatable. It simply means the likelihood of losing is far less than winning.

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Clear favorite is FAR from without a doubt. Hazewinkle was a clear favorite his senior year and lost. Hendricks was also a clear favorite his senior year and Perry finally beat him. It does NOT mean you are unbeatable. It simply means the likelihood of losing is far less than winning.

 

So if St. John is a CLEAR favorite, who is your definition of just a favorite?

 

It's likely where we disagree. To me, a clear favorite is Jordan Oliver, Logan Steiber, Ed Ruth.

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Listening to all of the Hawkeye fans complain and whine about Lofthouse over the past 3 years, all I can think to myself is, "Do you watch St. John Wrestle?" I like St. John, hope he does well, but he's the most boring Hawkeye out on the mat. Lofthouse at least is actually getting out wrestled, out muscled and out sized. St. John does what he has to, to win. He relies too much on the referees calls to go his way. Seems to me to be a coin flipper, who luckily seems to get the coin to always land his way.

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Listening to all of the Hawkeye fans complain and whine about Lofthouse over the past 3 years, all I can think to myself is, "Do you watch St. John Wrestle?" I like St. John, hope he does well, but he's the most boring Hawkeye out on the mat. Lofthouse at least is actually getting out wrestled, out muscled and out sized. St. John does what he has to, to win. He relies too much on the referees calls to go his way. Seems to me to be a coin flipper, who luckily seems to get the coin to always land his way.
Good one. He must be using a loaded coin.

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Clear favorite is FAR from without a doubt. Hazewinkle was a clear favorite his senior year and lost. Hendricks was also a clear favorite his senior year and Perry finally beat him. It does NOT mean you are unbeatable. It simply means the likelihood of losing is far less than winning.

 

So if St. John is a CLEAR favorite, who is your definition of just a favorite?

 

It's likely where we disagree. To me, a clear favorite is Jordan Oliver, Logan Steiber, Ed Ruth.

 

A favorite is simply someone who is the one most likely to win out of the group. A CLEAR favorite is someone who is CONSIDERABLY more likely to win than anyone else. I gave 2 examples up above that should have helped you understand what I meant.

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Clear favorite is FAR from without a doubt. Hazewinkle was a clear favorite his senior year and lost. Hendricks was also a clear favorite his senior year and Perry finally beat him. It does NOT mean you are unbeatable. It simply means the likelihood of losing is far less than winning.

 

So if St. John is a CLEAR favorite, who is your definition of just a favorite?

 

It's likely where we disagree. To me, a clear favorite is Jordan Oliver, Logan Steiber, Ed Ruth.

 

A favorite is simply someone who is the one most likely to win out of the group. A CLEAR favorite is someone who is CONSIDERABLY more likely to win than anyone else. I gave 2 examples up above that should have helped you understand what I meant.

 

So is St. John in the same category as Ruth, Oliver and Steiber in regards to clear favorites?

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I don't see any problem with with the way DSJ wins...very similar to Dake in that respect..."just win baby" as Al Davis would say. What irks me about him is his dirty, headbutt out of bounds as the whistle blows, tactics. I wish the refs would grow a pair and hit him for a penalty point...maybe he'd think twice about continually doing it.

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He is most definitely a clear favorite in March.

 

Dylan Alton proved last night he is RIGHT there with him. I'm not sure how one can say a clear favorite after that close of a win. If D Altons stamina is just a tad better, he pulls last night out IN Carver. I do agree DSJ is the favorite, but not as clear cut as you claim.

When you are 3-0 against a guy you are kinda the clear favorite.

 

Not a clear favorite. 3 VERY close matches doesn't make you a favorite. All of them could have gone either way.

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Listening to all of the Hawkeye fans complain and whine about Lofthouse over the past 3 years, all I can think to myself is, "Do you watch St. John Wrestle?" I like St. John, hope he does well, but he's the most boring Hawkeye out on the mat. Lofthouse at least is actually getting out wrestled, out muscled and out sized. St. John does what he has to, to win. He relies too much on the referees calls to go his way. Seems to me to be a coin flipper, who luckily seems to get the coin to always land his way.

 

People don't complain about DSJ because he wins. They complain about Ethen because he loses some. Sad, but true.

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that's the problem though with BOTH Altons....they're not in great enough condition lung wise...Add Brown to the mix too from PSU.

 

149 lb Alton would've won probably by TF if he maintained his 1st period pace last night. GASSED BAD

 

157 lb Alton escapes in 2 secs when he's not tired in the 2nd, then can't even get to his feet at the end of the bout. Not sure if he can close THAT gap. Wrestling wise, technique wise, IMHO, he's a better wrestler than St. John. But he doesn't compete for 7 mins and that's a problem.

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So if St. John is a CLEAR favorite, who is your definition of just a favorite?

 

It's likely where we disagree. To me, a clear favorite is Jordan Oliver, Logan Steiber, Ed Ruth.

 

A favorite is simply someone who is the one most likely to win out of the group. A CLEAR favorite is someone who is CONSIDERABLY more likely to win than anyone else. I gave 2 examples up above that should have helped you understand what I meant.

 

So is St. John in the same category as Ruth, Oliver and Steiber in regards to clear favorites?

 

I would put Ruth and Oliver ahead of him while I think St. John is slightly ahead of Stieber simply because I have a hard time picturing Ramos losing. If Stieber handles Ramos at B1G's I would put him ahead of St. John.

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1. Derek St. John Tech Shane Brown (Cumberland) 19-4 1-0

2. Derek St. John Dec Jedd Moore (Virginia) 6-0 2-0

3. Derek St. John Maj Trey Stavrum (Chattanooga) 19-6 3-0

4. Derek St. John Tech Kyle Lowman (SIU-Edwardsville) 17-1 4-0

5. Derek St. John Fall Josh Guenther (Cornell Coll) 2:47 5-0

6. Derek St. John Maj Logan Molina (Iowa State) 16-5 6-0

7. Derek St. John Dec Joey Napoli (Lehigh) 6-0 7-0

8. Derek St. John Maj Cody Ruggirello (Hofstra) 16-4 8-0

9. Derek St. John Fall Vincent Favia (Bucknell) 4:53 9-0

10. Derek St. John Maj Wally Maziarz (Buffalo) 21-7 10-0

11. Derek St. John Dec Josh Demas (Ohio State) 4-2 11-0

12. Derek St. John Dec Tommy Churchard (Purdue) 7-2 12-0

13. Derek St. John Dec Alex Dieringer (Oklahoma State) 8-4 13-0

14. Derek St. John Tech Collin Zeerip (Michigan) 22-7 14-0

15. Derek St. John Dec Ryan Watts (Michigan State) 12-6 15-0

16. Derek St. John Dec Danny Zilverberg (Minnesota) 6-2 16-0

 

I'll post this here too since it fits the title. And the guys who run their mouths without looking things up can use this to check before posting nonsense. Your welcome in advance.

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I don't see any problem with with the way DSJ wins...very similar to Dake in that respect..."just win baby" as Al Davis would say. What irks me about him is his dirty, headbutt out of bounds as the whistle blows, tactics. I wish the refs would grow a pair and hit him for a penalty point...maybe he'd think twice about continually doing it.

 

exactly. He is dirty, a cheap shot artist. Spends most of the match punching his opponent in the face.

 

I like guys who grind out wins and get the close W's

 

DSJ is classless and dirty.

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I don't see any problem with with the way DSJ wins...very similar to Dake in that respect..."just win baby" as Al Davis would say. What irks me about him is his dirty, headbutt out of bounds as the whistle blows, tactics. I wish the refs would grow a pair and hit him for a penalty point...maybe he'd think twice about continually doing it.

 

exactly. He is dirty, a cheap shot artist. Spends most of the match punching his opponent in the face.

 

I like guys who grind out wins and get the close W's

 

DSJ is classless and dirty.

Can't beat em, Belittle em. Should be TheMat forum tagline.

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I don't see any problem with with the way DSJ wins...very similar to Dake in that respect..."just win baby" as Al Davis would say. What irks me about him is his dirty, headbutt out of bounds as the whistle blows, tactics. I wish the refs would grow a pair and hit him for a penalty point...maybe he'd think twice about continually doing it.

 

exactly. He is dirty, a cheap shot artist. Spends most of the match punching his opponent in the face.

 

I like guys who grind out wins and get the close W's

 

DSJ is classless and dirty.

Can't beat em, Belittle em. Should be TheMat forum tagline.

 

I get the same feeling watching DSJ. Pushes to the face, head butts, cheap shots. Those were all first period and continued throughout the match. No real offense just that stuff. Same against Dake in NCAA's last year. Not a fan.

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I get the same feeling watching DSJ. Pushes to the face, head butts, cheap shots. Those were all first period and continued throughout the match. No real offense just that stuff. Same against Dake in NCAA's last year. Not a fan.

 

Yeah, except for multiple leg attacks and reshots he didn't do anything!

 

I assume you are equally offended by Brown getting free of Evan's single by pushing off of Mike's face to free his leg? Or his Grabbing the headgear multiple times to gain an unfair advantage? Edit: just saw brown throw an elbow from bottom. He better head towards the top of everyone's list!

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