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KTG119

is good wrestling boring?

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there's 3 different threads going now related in one way or another to viewership, marketability, asses in the seats or couch potatoes tuning in. In all of those discussions somewhere along the line comes mention of HS or lower levels being more exciting to watch, and part of that being more pins, higher scoring matches, etc. College wrestling, then suffering in comparison as they aren't as many pins, not as many crazy high scoring matches, etc and that essentially being the results of the good wrestlers being too fundamentally sound for there to be as many of those type results. So in essence, is good wrestling boring?

 

or is the premise that lower levels of wrestling are more excited flawed to being with?

 

 

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there's 3 different threads going now related in one way or another to viewership, marketability, asses in the seats or couch potatoes tuning in. In all of those discussions somewhere along the line comes mention of HS or lower levels being more exciting to watch, and part of that being more pins, higher scoring matches, etc. College wrestling, then suffering in comparison as they aren't as many pins, not as many crazy high scoring matches, etc and that essentially being the results of the good wrestlers being too fundamentally sound for there to be as many of those type results. So in essence, is good wrestling boring?

 

or is the premise that lower levels of wrestling are more excited flawed to being with?

 

 

High school wrestling pales in comparison to college wrestling in terms of talent level, but grandmom and granddad naturally support their grandchildren. That is how junior high wrestling draws more fans. These threads come up every year from the same posters who are always pining for duals to determine the national championship. 

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Any sport can be compelling as long as you understand the strategy behind what people are doing. 

 

Most people watched GSP and BJ Penn at UFC 94 and said it was boring, In the first period, GSP took Penn down and stayed on his left arm pushing him all over the mat while Penn used the left arm to try and keep GSP from mounting. BJ Penn couldn't use his jab to control the bout like he normally does in the second round because he left arm was so tired.  Without knowing GSP was doing that you would be perplexed by why that was interesting.

 

People understand the basics of how teams score in football, baseball, and basketball and that's why they are so popular. Wrestling is complex in the scoring whether it's individual scoring, tournament scoring, or dual scoring, more often than not, people don't understand what they are watching and that's why it doesn't have casual fans IMO.

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"Good" (high level) wrestling can be boring for casual fans, yes. More sophisticated fans might appreciate technique, strategy, positioning, etc. and other nuances but casual fans want just tune in to see throws, pins and other big moves. They don't care about hand-fighting or countering Russian ties or whatever.

 

But it's the same for most sports and that's why football and basketball, which packs a lots a ton of spectacle and action into each game, can draw and sustain viewerships at its highest level of competition. Touchdown passes, slam dunks, brutal sacks, etc. are easy to appreciate and understand. Conversely, baseball is a very strategic game but many hardcore fans get frustrated because casual viewers just want to see home runs or catch a foul ball. Soccer at the world level is very similar to wrestling, but bored fans at least get to sing and drink, and there's a huge payoff when a goal is actually scored - or if a tournament match goes to a shootout.

Edited by pamela

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"Good" (high level) wrestling can be boring for casual fans, yes. More sophisticated fans might appreciate technique, strategy, positioning, etc. and other nuances but casual fans want just tune in to see throws, pins and other big moves. They don't care about hand-fighting or countering Russian ties or whatever.

 

But it's the same for most sports and that's why football and basketball, which packs a lots a ton of spectacle and action into each game, can draw and sustain viewerships at its highest level of competition. Touchdown passes, slam dunks, brutal sacks, etc. are easy to appreciate and understand. Conversely, baseball is a very strategic game but many hardcore fans get frustrated because casual viewers just want to see home runs or catch a foul ball. Soccer at the world level is very similar to wrestling, but bored fans at least get to sing and drink, and there's a huge payoff when a goal is actually scored - or if a tournament match goes to a shootout.

Regarding soccer, the drunken hooligans enjoy fighting after the game! Probably many go just for that.

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Football (I know nothing about basketball) has evolved its rules to keep pace with the increasing athleticism, training methods, and strategies in order to maintain a product that is fun to watch (offensive).  I think wrestling is long overdue for similar rules tweaks in order to keep the product exciting for fans.  College wrestling in the 80's was offensive, high-paced and exciting.  However, defense has improved so much and wrestlers have become so risk-averse that the product is all too often boring.  4 pt nearfall was a step in the right direction.

 

Step out rule = stall warning.  Doesn't matter who's backing up, or for what reason, first one to step out should get dinged.

 

Eliminate riding time. Terrible for all but the most knowledgeable, hardcore fans.

 

Sudden victory OT should last until someone scores.  With step-outs, it wouldn't take long.

 

Etc.  There are numerous other great ideas to improve the product for the fans.

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If your definition of good wrestling is NCAA competition, then yes good wrestling is often boring.  If it is world level competition, then no it is not boring.  Freestyle is very exciting...We just have rules set up that reward stalling, pushing, and "control" rather than executing technique.  

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If your definition of good wrestling is NCAA competition, then yes good wrestling is often boring.  If it is world level competition, then no it is not boring.  Freestyle is very exciting...We just have rules set up that reward stalling, pushing, and "control" rather than executing technique.  

yes, for the purposes of this discussion, on the college board and with back story of other threads discussing collegiate wrestling marketability, I am defining good wrestling as NCAA wrestling. 

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Might as well complain that two pitchers throwing no hitters going into the 9th inning is boring.

 

Casual fans and viewers of most sports miss a lot.

How would you know about this? Last time two no-hitters were thrown in the same game was on May 2, 1917...and I don't think you were born yet! :)

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How would you know about this? Last time two no-hitters were thrown in the same game was on May 2, 1917...and I don't think you were born yet! :)

"going into the 9th inning".

 

Then again, I would much rather watch a Rod Carew at bat than a Barry Bonds.

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I find Freestyle comparatively dull, compared to Collegiate. I enjoy mat wrestling, guys working for turns, trying to escape and such. Wrestling on the feet all too often just results in a couple guys locked up top and making halfhearted feints (the moreso the higher the weight). International FS is some of the more boring **** on Earth, judging by the Olympic coverage I saw last year. Stall...stall...push the guy out of bounds...stall...win 1-0. I can't stand it. And I'm a WRESTLER. I can only imagine what civilians must think.  I know it's not always that way...but a lot of the time that's exactly how it plays out.

 

So...is "good wrestling boring"? Not necessarily...but sometimes.

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How would you know about this? Last time two no-hitters were thrown in the same game was on May 2, 1917...and I don't think you were born yet! :)

This is the Game that put Jim Thorpe in the Baseball Hall of Fame. He batted the winning run in the Tenth

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