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Was Heil pinned?

Should Jimmy have gotten the fall?  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Jimmy have gotten the fall?

    • Yes
      69
    • No
      28


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Heil wasn't pinned. Did Retherford stall his way to the decisive rt point? Definitely.

This is funny because the only point Collica scored was on two stalling calls against Retherford. The difference in the match is that Retherford escaped, Collica did not.

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He was undoubtedly flat, not sure if it was more than a full second but it looked like it.  Regardless, it's not an outrage because neutral falls are a tough call that different refs probably call differently.  I think it's quite presumptuous to claim it was home crowd pressure that made him not call it, he may just be a ref who doesn't tend to call neutral falls unless they are absolutely clear.

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Just as I thought, more Penn St alternative facts....no pin

 

 

Funny, Bo pinned himself vs. Iowa, but this was no pin here for Gulibon. Guess people are gonna see what they want to see. Fake News. Ha ha. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Simply put, a ref does not look for a neutral fall in nearly the same way as an offensive one.  He is taught to first look for control(to award a takedown).  Since control has not yet been established, looking solely for the fall(as he would for the offensive wrestler) does not occur.  That isn't to say they are not supposed to look.  But, it is very simple common sense that the pin would not be called in nearly a similar fashion.

 

I understand that Heil is very frustrating to watch.  But, just because he seems to get into these positions often, doesn't mean the standard will change.  A ref isn't going to call a neutral fall remotely as fast as a normal one and I don't think he should.  Folkstyle has always been about control.  A neutral pin should be so obvious that no one can dispute it.  Remember, this is coming from someone that absolutely wanted Evans to beat Perry.  But, I completely support the fact that it wasn't called.

Edited by MSU158

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http://www.roarlionsroar.com/penn-state-wrestling/2017/02/1822/jimmy-gulibon-robbed-of-an-obvious-pin-of-no-1-dean-heil

 

Here is some video for non-flo subscribers. There may have been a sliver of sunlight, but I've certainly seen pins called for less. Ref was looking right at it though. Don't know if any of the other times mentioned were more clear.

Edited by 1032004

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http://www.roarlionsroar.com/penn-state-wrestling/2017/02/1822/jimmy-gulibon-robbed-of-an-obvious-pin-of-no-1-dean-heil

 

Here is some video for non-flo subscribers. There may have been a sliver of sunlight, but I've certainly seen pins called for less. Ref was looking right at it though. Don't know if any of the other times mentioned were more clear.

 

At the early part, you can see under the shoulder on the referees side and he is in perfect position to see it.

Then they rotate away from the camera but Hagerty moves with them and even shakes his head no at one point.

This wasn't a tough call (or non-call actually).

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Just watched the HD replay on Flo as I only caught the FB stream live. 

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1111154-141-lbs-dean-heil-ok-state-vs-jimmy-gulibon-psu#.WKsxyG8rKUk

 

6:58

7:07

9:27

 

Were instances where based on the video, I felt Heil was pinned, the 9:27 instance being the clearest. There were also at least 2 more instances after 9:27 where it was very close but given the camera angle, I could not tell definitively. But @ 9:27, there is no doubt in my mind he was pinned. 

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Just as I thought, more Penn St alternative facts....no pin

 

Penn State fact...   27-13.    Didn't even need the missed pin!!!  If ALL the breaks or (non breaks) go PSU's way it's 36-4!!!!  Any way ya look at it, quite a butt whipping..

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Just watched the HD replay on Flo as I only caught the FB stream live. 

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1111154-141-lbs-dean-heil-ok-state-vs-jimmy-gulibon-psu#.WKsxyG8rKUk

 

6:58

7:07

9:27

 

Were instances where based on the video, I felt Heil was pinned, the 9:27 instance being the clearest. There were also at least 2 more instances after 9:27 where it was very close but given the camera angle, I could not tell definitively. But @ 9:27, there is no doubt in my mind he was pinned. 

 

 

Here is what a few others said about 141

 

OSU Radio Announcer "I don't know how you don't slap the mat there

 

Christian Pyles "An inch away, an inch away, and there it is"

 

Bader "He was flat" 

 

The voice of PSU wrestling also called it a fall, but he may be biased. Not everyone can be biased though, as shown above. 

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