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Was Heil pinned?

Should Jimmy have gotten the fall?  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Jimmy have gotten the fall?

    • Yes
      69
    • No
      28


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Or change the rules to award 2 neutral near fall points (and perhaps 1 point if the man in jeopardy successfully returns to full neutral without fleeing the mat). Make the count longer (4count?) perhaps. You don't get neutral near fall AND TD if you get control though. Maybe too complicated, but I like the concept of rewarding the better position, especially when you hold it a long time (20 seconds?!?) and come away with nothing. I wouldn't want to the rule change to extend against a guy working from control. I still like all or nothing for defensive pins.

 

 

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1. Gulibon has both of Heil's legs

2. Gulibon popped the head out (and the shoulder out in period 2 which Heil himself seemed to think important)

3. Gulibon has Heil on his back for 20 seconds

 

If that is not control, then control needs to be redefined. 

I could see a takedown being called, I can also see why it wasn't.  Heil had the crotchlock pretty tight still.  You can see the ref looking right at that a majority of the time.  Simply put, neither the takedown or the pin are clear and that is inevitably why neither were called.

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1. Gulibon has both of Heil's legs

2. Gulibon popped the head out (and the shoulder out in period 2 which Heil himself seemed to think important)

3. Gulibon has Heil on his back for 20 seconds

 

If that is not control, then control needs to be redefined.

 

If you play the entire Flo video backwards and listen very very carefully you'll find in the first 5 seconds of the match Heil indicated he was defaulting and those phantom "pinfalls," or whatever they are called in PA, should've never occurred. ;_;

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I think he was, but I don't think it's robbery for it not to be called...Refs have always been reluctant to make that call.  Switch the rules to reward exposure instead of requiring control and it will be called more often.  

 

I thought Heil was pinned and I normally am against defensive falls, but Heil seems to take advantage of reluctant defensive fall calls to hang on when perhaps he shouldn't.  In his case, wouldn't mind seeing the fall. 

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I thought Heil was pinned and I normally am against defensive falls, but Heil seems to take advantage of reluctant defensive fall calls to hang on when perhaps he shouldn't.  In his case, wouldn't mind seeing the fall. 

 

 

Not only did Jimmy stack him up a couple of times, but George DiCamillo also stacked him up multiple times. It is almost a pattern with Heil now to crotch lock and just hang out waiting for the stalemate knowing they will never call the neutral/defensive pin. Anyone else plays with fire this many times they eventually get mat slapped sooner or later.

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Not only did Jimmy stack him up a couple of times, but George DiCamillo also stacked him up multiple times. It is almost a pattern with Heil now to crotch lock and just hang out waiting for the stalemate knowing they will never call the neutral/defensive pin. Anyone else plays with fire this many times they eventually get mat slapped sooner or later.

 

Cough (Clayton Foster) Cough....

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Watched it last night on Flo. Definite homecooking...Heil was pinned. I'd like to give the referee the benefit of the doubt...but ...naw!

You watched Flo's match video? Don't know if this has been posted yet,  but Flo wrote an article @ http://www.flowrestling.org/article/52300-dean-heil-was-not-pinned#.WLAuAfkrJhE 
 
I agree with the conclusion there, he wasn't pinned.  WIshful thinking for a lot of folks.

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If you think that that was not a defensive pinfall then there is no such thing as a defensive pinfall. We do not have a good angle on Bo's fall, but that fall was called comparitively quick. I am in no way saying that Bo did not earn the fall, I am saying that Heil was flat on his back longer than Boyd was.

Make the call

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You watched Flo's match video? Don't know if this has been posted yet,  but Flo wrote an article @ http://www.flowrestling.org/article/52300-dean-heil-was-not-pinned#.WLAuAfkrJhE 
 
I agree with the conclusion there, he wasn't pinned.  WIshful thinking for a lot of folks.

 

 

 

That is click bait. Bader was with CP calling the match and when CP said "this is the position that might get him pinned......there it is", Bader replied with "doh, doh, he's flat".

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1112426-dean-heil-plays-with-fire-vs-jimmy-gulibon#.WLBS7vkrJPY

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If you think that that was not a defensive pinfall then there is no such thing as a defensive pinfall. We do not have a good angle on Bo's fall, but that fall was called comparitively quick. I am in no way saying that Bo did not earn the fall, I am saying that Heil was flat on his back longer than Boyd was.

Make the call

 

that pretty much goes without saying.  The dual meet was in OK, there's no such thing as a "pinfall" in OK, so pretty sure there's no such thing as a "defensive pinfall."  

 

Jessup: The Corporal will take you by Pennsylvania on your way back  and you can have all the pinfalls you want.

 

Kaffee: I beg your pardon?

 

;)

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I am unfamiliar with the term, 'defensive pinfall'.  That is a generic term that applies to situations other than the canonical 'top guy pins bottom guy'?  This was from neutral, so this situation is different from 'bottom guy pins top guy'.  

I believe the bottom guy can pin the top guy and there can be a pin from neutral.  It didn't happen in this case, pure and simple.  His shoulders touched simultaneously, but they more or less bounced off the mat.  They never stayed for the requisite second.

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Most people get over it,such as ok st fans and Bo Nickal pinning himself. when it comes to Penn state fans it is how they grieve a loss. It enables them the strength to carry on and cheer the next underperformance by one of their blue chips. It is important to have your own support group in these times of sadness.

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Most people get over it,such as ok st fans and Bo Nickal pinning himself. when it comes to Penn state fans it is how they grieve a loss. It enables them the strength to carry on and cheer the next underperformance by one of their blue chips. It is important to have your own support group in these times of sadness.

I disagree. With the exception of a few PSU fans who have unusual passion and a desire to make their opinion known (i.e., posters on this thread) PSU fans could not give a hoot and a holler about this thread, the topic and are looking forward to conference championship. I would say more but I'm late for my weekly Bubba vs. Taylor workshop.

 

 

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Most people get over it,such as ok st fans and Bo Nickal pinning himself. when it comes to Penn state fans it is how they grieve a loss. It enables them the strength to carry on and cheer the next underperformance by one of their blue chips. It is important to have your own support group in these times of sadness.

 

 

Did you practice that in front of the mirror?

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The Nickal situation was slightly different because Bo was in an offensive and in control position working for a fall. The official was in the correct position to look for the offensive fall, which put him in the wrong position to see if Bo was pinned. I doubt the outside official, who should have been in the right position to see Bo flat would ever make that call. 

The official  in the Heil match was staring right at Heil's flat back but didn't have the stones to make the correct call. 

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The Nickal situation was slightly different because Bo was in an offensive and in control position working for a fall. The official was in the correct position to look for the offensive fall, which put him in the wrong position to see if Bo was pinned. I doubt the outside official, who should have been in the right position to see Bo flat would ever make that call.

The official in the Heil match was staring right at Heil's flat back but didn't have the stones to make the correct call.

Sorry, I'm sure it wasn't on purpose.

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