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Zain can be had

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Yep, given time and circumstances anyone can be had. Osamu Watanabe was 187-0 in International freestyle and won two worlds and then Olympic Gold in 1964 and was never taken down in any of the matches.

Sadly, he lost in the perfect string a few decades later in Master's wrestling where he finished 2nd.

So yep, Zain can be taken.

 

Just ask Brent Metcalf, Ed Banach and Josh Lambrecht.

 

That's crazy talk,  are you talking about 6 seed Josh Lambrecht?    

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Retherford struggles with the heavy hands to the head/face. Collica may have given him Pico flashbacks. Just recall how Pico consistently took Zain apart over the course of about 5 matches.

In Big Ten media day interview the reporter asked Zain about the strategy of putting hands in his face - not because the opponent is setting anything up but instead to disrupt and to keep away from Zain's offense. Zain's reply was pretty much that they are working on it - his set ups,ties, etc. It will be interesting to see if Zain can find an effective way to beat these slow down tactics and get matches up to the high tempo that he prefers. Maybe they read your post!

 

 

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In Big Ten media day interview the reporter asked Zain about the strategy of putting hands in his face - not because the opponent is setting anything up but instead to disrupt and to keep away from Zain's offense. Zain's reply was pretty much that they are working on it - his set ups,ties, etc. It will be interesting to see if Zain can find an effective way to beat these slow down tactics and get matches up to the high tempo that he prefers. Maybe they read your post!

 

 

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It's funny you describe it as slow down tactics when the opponent was more interested in offense than he was.  

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It's funny you describe it as slow down tactics when the opponent was more interested in offense than he was.

I'm pretty sure Zain prefers up tempo. Being frustrated offensively is not the same as being "(un)interested in offense". It could be that he has completely changed his previous history and slipped out of an offensive mind set, but that's a hard sell for me. I hope it's not the case.

 

 

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Edited by swoopdown

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Pretty sure Collica actually was in on a leg that Zain managed to get a stalemate out of.

 

 

Actually, not a stalemate there. Zain turned around and in on Collica, broke the leg out and then came forward and shoved him backwards. That was the one and only time the entire match where Collica got a leg, but he could not do anything with it. Collica's primary offense in the match was throwing that left jab about 75 times. The announcers brought it up multiple times during their play by play, and perhaps that led to the question in today's media day at PSU. 

Edited by TBar1977

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The only thing I have seen this year that backs up the notion that Rutherford has lost a step from last year was him repeatedly jumping on Collica's back. I was really surprised that he wasn't confident enough to just cut him and earn a takedown. Unlike TBar who reduces everything to lame sports cliches, I actually listen very carefully to Cael when he talks, and one of the great philosphies I've picked up from him is "figure it out."

 

First match....maybe ever he didn't seem to want to "figure it out", just wanted to get an ugly win and get out of there. But like i've said before wrestlings hard, they aren't all gonna be gems.  

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Collica's primary offense in the match was throwing that left jab about 75 times.

 

75? you sure it wasn't more like 100 to 150. I'm pretty certain I heard the ref tell him "you do that another 100 times and I'm a gonna penalize you." So it had to be more than 100. ;_;

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Actually, not a stalemate there. Zain turned around and in on Collica, broke the leg out and then came forward and shoved him backwards. That was the one and only time the entire match where Collica got a leg, but he could not do anything with it. Collica's primary offense in the match was throwing that left jab about 75 times. The announcers brought it up multiple times during their play by play, and perhaps that led to the question in today's media day at PSU. 

So when one guy gets to the legs once and the other guy zero times you characterize the guy who got there once as using slow down tactics?  What do you characterize the guy who never sniffed a leg as doing?

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So you think I was wrong and that Retherford was more offensive and Collica was using slow down tactics? 

 

I think that Zain was stalling and that Collica always looks to slow things down.  Let's be honest--going into the match, Collica was looking to slow things down.  It's not like he was pressing, say, like a Nolf. 

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I think that Zain was stalling and that Collica always looks to slow things down.  Let's be honest--going into the match, Collica was looking to slow things down.  It's not like he was pressing, say, like a Nolf. 

There's a difference between Nolf and slow down tactics.  About 90% of wrestlers live somewhere in that difference.  Collica was able to keep the match at a distance he could attack from (rarely), but where Retherford could not attack from (at all).  Collica would have to be better on bottom or better at finishing limited opportunities to make that pay off.  

 

Zain just didn't do much.  I think some was matchup problems, and some of that will be alleviated with the match prep Cael talked about.  

 

Basically a truly great wrestler and a really, really good one squaring off in a match both would probably like to be better in if they wrestle again.  I just didn't get the post about Collica using slow down tactics when he was the more offensive wrestler.

Edited by boconnell

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I think that Zain was stalling and that Collica always looks to slow things down. Let's be honest--going into the match, Collica was looking to slow things down. It's not like he was pressing, say, like a Nolf.

You are absolutely correct about Collica wanting to slow things down. I find it curious that some don't see that. Maybe a semantic thing where slowing down is equated with stalling. I've seen plenty of wrestlers whose game is primarily defensive, more about stance, hand fighting and disrupting than about constantly attacking. These wrestlers can be pretty parsimonious about attacking unless their chances of success are extremely high. Their game is typically not about forcing opportunities, not about creating funk situations, not about power but instead position, angles, disruption etc. I'm ok with resulting tactical matches, find them interesting and am less inclined to throwing the stall crying towel out for either wrestler. But I'm in a minority now a'days, where some are advocating shot clocks and rapid ref intervention to force action and others who believe low scoring automatically equates with stalling. Retherford needs to "figure it out" and grow. Collica needs to refine and find opportunities. I see nothing but good in watching this type of matchup develop, even if it is not a scoring slugfest. But there are some who hate this type of slow down and are quick to criticize one wrestler or the other.

 

I think that people who are calling out Retherford for stalling are underestimating Collica's skills. For that reason I'm inclined to believe Retherford was more frustrated than stalling, but without being able to see inside Retherford's head, can't be certain. Maybe you're right but I'm not there yet. I'm looking forward to a rematch to see how each adjusts - Retherford and Collica (and Refs and rule interpretation for that matter.)

 

 

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Edited by swoopdown

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Whatever Collica did almost worked. The match was among the most boring I've ever seen, but how can anyone blame Collica for anything that he did when he nearly pulled off the unthinkable?

 

I don't actually want to see the rematch (given how the last one went) but I can't wait to find out the result. John Smoth was the best ever from any country at keeping distance from opponents and using his quickness to score himself. Maybe he'll impart some of that to Collica and get it done next time. Not what I predict but you're crazy to think it cannot happen.

 

I just want PSUMike to give me those 7:1 odds or whatever it was.

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