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BigTimeFan

Let's talk Hodge (again)

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Maybe I'm getting old and my eyes don't work as well as they used to, but the more I zoom; the more I'd put that pic in the rule book as a textbook stick after a quick Mississippi.

Look again, there's clearly space under his right shoulder and his scapula isn't in contact with the mat.

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What short memories we all have.  Don't forget that this WIN magazine award is given to whoever they choose, then they simply justify their choice by highlighting whatever criteria make the most sense, not the other around.  It's not like the criteria is some sort of algorithm that spits out the most qualified choice.  That said, I would venture to guess that a senior 3x champ Dean is a lock.  If Bo wins, it gets a lot more interesting. No matter how dominant this year, I don't see a soph 1x beating Imar or Snyder.  Imo, Snyder's lack of matches won't matter a whit.  Snyder could well win it, even with a Champ Dean (co-winners). 

 

Bottom line is there's no telling who those crazies in Newton, Iowa will want to please.  Don't rule out an undefeated Gilman.  Those Hawks have a track record of winning even when they have to re-interpret the criteria to justify it.

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What short memories we all have.  Don't forget that this WIN magazine award is given to whoever they choose, then they simply justify their choice by highlighting whatever criteria make the most sense, not the other around.  It's not like the criteria is some sort of algorithm that spits out the most qualified choice.  That said, I would venture to guess that a senior 3x champ Dean is a lock.  If Bo wins, it gets a lot more interesting. No matter how dominant this year, I don't see a soph 1x beating Imar or Snyder.  Imo, Snyder's lack of matches won't matter a whit.  Snyder could well win it, even with a Champ Dean (co-winners). 

 

Bottom line is there's no telling who those crazies in Newton, Iowa will want to please.  Don't rule out an undefeated Gilman.  Those Hawks have a track record of winning even when they have to re-interpret the criteria to justify it.

Spot on.

They have criteria, but there is no algorithm like the NCAA picking an at large bid.  Snyder wins because he has earned the distinction of being the best collegiate wrestler in the USA.  Full stop.

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Spot on.

They have criteria, but there is no algorithm like the NCAA picking an at large bid.  Snyder wins because he has earned the distinction of being the best collegiate wrestler in the USA.  Full stop.

It's not a best wrestler award and words like full stop won't change that.  

 

It has a wide ranging enigma of factors that they apply almost at random.  It puts huge emphasis on the regular season by the emphasis on the number of pins.  That's how Ness won it.  He led the country in pins so he topped a superior wrestler capping a superior career.  Because he had the highest volume of falls.

 

None of the previous 22 Hodge winners had fewer than 29 victories.  They have averaged 38 wins in the season they won.  And with their unwillingness to give it to underclassmen, I bet the average Hodge winner had over 100 career wins at the time they won.  

They may give Snyder the award purely based on surpassing excellence, but it's far from a lock, and far from robbery if they don't.  

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I love Snyder but it's ridiculous to think that he could win the Hodge given how few matches he wrestled. It's ridiculous to think that "quality of competition" doesn't include having competed a full and complete (or almost complete) season. Being 30-0 or 25-0 or whatever and 0. Look it, according to wrestlestat.com

 

Snyder: 9-0

Valencia: 33-0

IMart: 23-0

Dean: 26-0

Nickal: 18-0

Nolf: 19-0

Zain: 19-0

 

He's wrestled half as many matches as nay of the other and the PSU guys haven't wrestled that many for a regular season, though some of that has to do with getting snowed out in December. 

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It's not a best wrestler award and words like full stop won't change that.  

 

It has a wide ranging enigma of factors that they apply almost at random.  It puts huge emphasis on the regular season by the emphasis on the number of pins.  That's how Ness won it.  He led the country in pins so he topped a superior wrestler capping a superior career.  Because he had the highest volume of falls.

 

None of the previous 22 Hodge winners had fewer than 29 victories.  They have averaged 38 wins in the season they won.  And with their unwillingness to give it to underclassmen, I bet the average Hodge winner had over 100 career wins at the time they won.  

They may give Snyder the award purely based on surpassing excellence, but it's far from a lock, and far from robbery if they don't.  

Interesting regarding the fewer than 29 vistories. If Nickal wins he will have how many? He is 18-0 now, so is it 3+4 for B1G's and NCAAs? So 25? 

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What short memories we all have.  Don't forget that this WIN magazine award is given to whoever they choose, then they simply justify their choice by highlighting whatever criteria make the most sense, not the other around.  It's not like the criteria is some sort of algorithm that spits out the most qualified choice.  That said, I would venture to guess that a senior 3x champ Dean is a lock.  If Bo wins, it gets a lot more interesting. No matter how dominant this year, I don't see a soph 1x beating Imar or Snyder.  Imo, Snyder's lack of matches won't matter a whit.  Snyder could well win it, even with a Champ Dean (co-winners). 

 

Bottom line is there's no telling who those crazies in Newton, Iowa will want to please.  Don't rule out an undefeated Gilman.  Those Hawks have a track record of winning even when they have to re-interpret the criteria to justify it.

 

...well as long as PricewaterhouseCoopers is not handling the envelopes...

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Not an expert on the Hodge trophy.  I thought WIN magazine created it, so I went to their website (https://www.win-magazine.com/win-awards/hodge-trophy/) and read:

"The WIN Magazine/Culture House Dan Hodge Trophy, presented by ASICS, is considered the Heisman Trophy for amateur wrestling and has been presented to the nation’s best wrestler since 1995."

If not 'best', is there a better definition somewhere?  Wikipedia also uses the word 'best', but it is notoriously unreliable. 

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Here we go again. Snyder vs Dean. Varner vs Ness. Ness and Dean will never even sniff a world team most likely and the other two are multiple time medalists and Olympic champs and were/are the best wrestlers in college. I know , I know the criteria...yawn. How about a freaking MVP of College wrestling then-why don't we have one?

Edited by PRyan2012

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I love Snyder but it's ridiculous to think that he could win the Hodge given how few matches he wrestled. It's ridiculous to think that "quality of competition" doesn't include having competed a full and complete (or almost complete) season. Being 30-0 or 25-0 or whatever and 0. Look it, according to wrestlestat.com

 

Snyder: 9-0

Valencia: 33-0

IMart: 23-0

Dean: 26-0

Nickal: 18-0

Nolf: 19-0

Zain: 19-0

 

He's wrestled half as many matches as nay of the other and the PSU guys haven't wrestled that many for a regular season, though some of that has to do with getting snowed out in December. 

 

you are saying he shouldn't win because of the quality of his competition? The matches you are talking about are JV matches to him.

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Oh and PRyan2012Varner, careful what you ask for.  We DO have several other awards.

 

http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2016-03-29/2016-ncaa-wrestling-awards-recap

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/41066-2016-flowrestling-end-of-season-ncaa-awards

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Coverage_Awards.html

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/16227

 

Interesting comments on the last link.  Someone mentioned Pico was 5-0 vs last year's Intermat MVP Zain.  So these awards mean different things to everyone.    I want the Hodge to continue to be a DOMINATING PINNER'S award.  

Edited by headshuck

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Oh and PRyan2012Varner, careful what you ask for.  We DO have several other awards.

 

http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2016-03-29/2016-ncaa-wrestling-awards-recap

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/41066-2016-flowrestling-end-of-season-ncaa-awards

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Coverage_Awards.html

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/16227

 

Interesting comments on the last link.  Someone mentioned Pico was 5-0 vs last year's Intermat MVP Zain.  So these awards mean different things to everyone.    I want the Hodge to continue to be a DOMINATING PINNER'S award.  

There should be a Schalles award. 

Additionally, somewhere in this argument Emmett Wilson's name is going to come up.  He was a deserving winner.  Apart from a tourney or two what was his competition like?  Sounds a lot like Snyder.

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Here we go again. Snyder vs Dean. Varner vs Ness. Ness and Dean will never even sniff a world team most likely and the other two are multiple time medalists and Olympic champs and were/are the best wrestlers in college. I know , I know the criteria...yawn. How about a freaking MVP of College wrestling then-why don't we have one?

 

MVP = Most Valuable Player

 

Sitting out over half your matches due to scheduling conflicts is not valuable. Is he the best wrestling in college right now? Yes. Is he deserving based on maybe 17 matches? No. 

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Ok...OK...Ok if it were so clear then we wouldn't have argued for like 10 years about this. To me there is no question that Dean deserves it if he wins NCAAs. Just like Varner and Gavin Dean should win hands down. I really don't consider anyone close to Dean although Snyder is the best by a pretty good margin.

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