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gowrestle

Suriano?

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Tons of misdirection information. 'Insiders' and coach saying he's fine. Now it is a game time decision.

 

It definitely looked bad to me. Have been surprised by the folks saying no biggie.

 

Pulling for the kid but I'll be impressed if he makes it deep into either tournament.

 

There are not many true insiders anywhere in public forums. Hope Suriano can go. We'll see Saturday.

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Mr Hammer, 

 

You are typically coming to my college wrestling forum…to cause trouble. I don't like that Mr Hammer. That bothers me a lot. Typically - it would seem obvious to lots of folks -  that you

 

have little or no bonafide information that could possibly add to the quality of the topics. So, it is with that notion that I respectively ask  you to please try your best to stay with the topic. Or,

 

should you not feel comfortable with a topic, simpy back out. If you get negative in a hostile manner - that can add to chaos and ruin/hijac a topic. Yes, many of us are guilty of sending a 

 

post that could be considered as negative in nature.  I am not excluded from that group. Although, not many folks do that (negative card) as regularly as you do. Please don't do that

 

anymore. I know that you can improve on the aforementioned issues, no doubt.   

 

 if I am ever wrong, please let me know. 

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My hunch is that he will make weight, med forfeit his first match, and be ready to go for the Nationals. But like one poster said, "We will see Saturday."

I think he has to actually compete.  Injury default instead and he will take a loss.  However, I don't think that will sting too much in St. Louis seeding.

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I think he has to actually compete. Injury default instead and he will take a loss. However, I don't think that will sting too much in St. Louis seeding.

Agree that they will take this approach. 1 loss by Injury Default and then MFF remaining matches.

 

The real question is what Seed does a 3 loss Suriano receive at NCAA's ? Assuming Dance wins ACC & Josh Rodriguez wins Big 12 ....... Would Suriano slip to #4 behind Gilman, Dance, & Rodriguez ?

Edited by Show_Me

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I think he has to actually compete.  Injury default instead and he will take a loss.  However, I don't think that will sting too much in St. Louis seeding.

 

If he does this, ie steps on the mat and defaults, does the conference keep his AQ at 125?

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Agree that they will take this approach. 1 loss by Injury Default and then MFF remaining matches.

The real question is what Seed does a 3 loss Suriano receive at NCAA's ? Assuming Dance wins ACC & Josh Rodriguez wins Big 12 ....... Would Suriano slip to #4 behind Gilman, Dance, & Rodriguez ?

At least if not drop more. Different seeding view (& different NCAA v B10) than back when guys could MF & keep there spot. With such approach he is effectively getting beat by everyone at B10, so not sure he even gets a 4 seed.

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My understanding is that the Inj. Default would count as a loss but the MFFT would not, so he'd only have three (Gilman, Picinnini, and Rd1 B1G Opponent X) seedings losses if he went this route.

 

I wonder if Cael will do what JRob did and argue that he should be unseeded at B1Gs because he knows he won't wrestle.  That was a classy move by J.

Edited by VakAttack

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At least if not drop more. Different seeding view (& different NCAA v B10) than back when guys could MF & keep there spot. With such approach he is effectively getting beat by everyone at B10, so not sure he even gets a 4 seed.

I hope this is how it works. It would be a joke to let a guy who didn't wrestle one match be seeded without penalty. That would incentivize guys to not wrestle at the conference tournament. Then not only would duals not matter, but also conference championships...

 

That said, the Flo article insinuated that it is a very real and even likely possibility that Suriano's seed would not get affected. So which is true?

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I hope this is how it works. It would be a joke to let a guy who didn't wrestle one match be seeded without penalty. That would incentivize guys to not wrestle at the conference tournament. Then not only would duals not matter, but also conference championships...

 

That said, the Flo article insinuated that it is a very real and even likely possibility that Suriano's seed would not get affected. So which is true?

Look at Delgado (returning champ) in 2015.  Situation was he torn his shoulder, if has surgery - he is done, if he wrestles too many matches - he is done.  He went into B10 as #2 seed, he wrestled to 4th place (close loss to Tomasello semi else could've MF in finals), NCAA gave him no consideration for the past - he was unseeded.  Now slightly different as he was not an AQ, if had been he probably would've done the weigh-in and no wrestling at B10 and just accepted an unseeded spot in NCAA, would've saved another 4 matches on that shoulder.  

 

For what its worth, I think the NCAA will consider a loss to Picc and finished last place in B10s, but perhaps still good enough record to get a lower seed (no way top 4,too many other healthy conference champs).

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Under the above scenario, I believe a 3-loss Suriano will get the #4 NCAA Seed behind Conference Champs Gilman (#1), Dance (#2), & Rodriques (#3). This assumes of course thall all 3 hold serve against tough competition (BIG - Lambert & Lizak, ACC - Mueller & Fausz, Big 12 - Pic).

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Under the above scenario, I believe a 3-loss Suriano will get the #4 NCAA Seed behind Conference Champs Gilman (#1), Dance (#2), & Rodriques (#3). This assumes of course thall all 3 hold serve against tough competition (BIG - Lambert & Lizak, ACC - Mueller & Fausz, Big 12 - Pic).

 

He is currently at 2 losses and by wrestlestat at #7 (really 6) behind Gillman, Dance, Cruz, Breser (rs), Lambert, & Rodriguez.  If he doesn't wrestle B10 he will be at 4 losses.  If Gilman, Lambert, Lizak finish 1,2,3 he will be behind all 3 of them (certainly behind the top 2) and then behind other conference champs & perhaps behind the runner up, depending on conference & that individuals overall record.  I think that gives him a top side of ~6/7 if he doesn't wrestle depending on other individuals but could be lower.  The NCAA will give other guys credit (as they should) for wrestling.  

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***Disclaimer***
I have no inside info on the matter

I cant imagine he tests it this weekend. It would be an extremely risky move with very little reward. As mention above he is a likely #2 seed with an outside shot at the #1 assuming he is 100% and somehow knocks off Gilman. Worst case if he sits hes probably a #4 and he just has Gilman 1 round sooner. 

Also I just watched the video for the first time today of the injury. I was under the impression he rolled it, but it happened when his ankle got caught and twisted in an unnatural direction. I'd imagine the likelihood of it being more severe because of the twisting motion as opposed to just rolling it is greater. Also one last note. I hurt my ankle pretty bad back in high school and thought for sure it was broken and it just ended up being a bad high ankle sprain so just because he mouthed the words it's broken doesnt mean it for sure is. Either way i cant imagine he will be 100% by NCAA's

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I think he has to actually compete.  Injury default instead and he will take a loss.  However, I don't think that will sting too much in St. Louis seeding.

 

He can injury default,  yes that means take a loss. When D.S. did it, he stepped on the mat and then defaulted.  Maybe he drops from 2 see to 3.  

 

But with ankle injuries, the risk of hurting it more is too great (IMHO) and if he reinjures it in the B1G, he may not be able to complete on the big stage. 

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Injuries like these are the reason why you have to pull redshirted liek Hall. If you have a good shot to win, you have to pull. Life is too unpredictable.

 

Where are all the naysayers who thought pulling Hall's shirt was a bad move by Cael? I would've done the same thing 100 times out of 100.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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He can injury default,  yes that means take a loss. When D.S. did it, he stepped on the mat and then defaulted.  Maybe he drops from 2 see to 3.  

 

But with ankle injuries, the risk of hurting it more is too great (IMHO) and if he reinjures it in the B1G, he may not be able to complete on the big stage. 

Not the same seeding process as when D.S.  Siebert & Schmidt both went into NCAAs as undefeated #1 seniors with injuries, Siebert had actually defaulted down to 7th b10, worked out for him.

 

The NCAA isn't doing that anymore, if you default in your tourney you are saying you are "damaged goods" and not the same wrestler that had all those previous wins.  I say no way he'd get better than 6/7, he is already below #3 unless he wins B10s or gets 2nd and other guys get upset.

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I say no way he'd get better than 6/7, he is already below #3 unless he wins B10s or gets 2nd and other guys get upset.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

I am sticking with a #4 NCAA Seed (assuming Gilman, Dance, & Rodriguez win Conference Titles).

 

We will re-visit this in 8 days 😀

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Injuries like these are the reason why you have to pull redshirted liek Hall. If you have a good shot to win, you have to pull. Life is too unpredictable.

 

Where are all the naysayers who thought pulling Hall's shirt was a bad move by Cael? I would've done the same thing 100 times out of 100.

 

 

nerd, my memory is that there were two schools of thought. One set of fans demanded pulling the redshirt, while other fans took the position that whatever the head coach did was OK with them since the head coach had a lot more information on the subject.

Edited by TBar1977

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Not the same seeding process as when D.S.  Siebert & Schmidt both went into NCAAs as undefeated #1 seniors with injuries, Siebert had actually defaulted down to 7th b10, worked out for him.

 

The NCAA isn't doing that anymore, if you default in your tourney you are saying you are "damaged goods" and not the same wrestler that had all those previous wins.  I say no way he'd get better than 6/7, he is already below #3 unless he wins B10s or gets 2nd and other guys get upset.

 

If he takes 2nd in the B1Gs, I don't see any way he doesn't get the 2 seed. His only losses are a close one to the #1 guy and an injury default. Regardless of how well Dance and Rodriguez do, his resume is better. 

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Not the same seeding process as when D.S.  Siebert & Schmidt both went into NCAAs as undefeated #1 seniors with injuries, Siebert had actually defaulted down to 7th b10, worked out for him.

 

The NCAA isn't doing that anymore, if you default in your tourney you are saying you are "damaged goods" and not the same wrestler that had all those previous wins.  I say no way he'd get better than 6/7, he is already below #3 unless he wins B10s or gets 2nd and other guys get upset.

 

I didn't know that - thanks for the info. 

 

Though I kind of hate to see this sort of thing, I'd rather NS inj def at B1Gs and go to nationals healthier, albeit with a lower seed, than participate in B1Gs - and possibly risk reaggravation & reinjury - & nationals at less than his best (given the circumstances). And given the separation in the weight class, a 6/7 seed works out similarly to a 2/3 anyway and Nick would probably do well no matter where he's placed in the bottom half of the bracket. 

 

Same goes for Cory Clark. If his shoulder is a problem and he needs time to recover before NCAAs, so be it. He's capable of bulldozing through the bracket no matter what he's seeded. Would be a smart risk, Imo.

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If he takes 2nd in the B1Gs, I don't see any way he doesn't get the 2 seed. His only losses are a close one to the #1 guy and an injury default. Regardless of how well Dance and Rodriguez do, his resume is better. 

 

I feel bad for Suriano because I think he was the 2nd best 125 in the country with a chance to beat Gilman.  Not sure how he can even AA since he may not go or be severely limited.  We shall see.

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