Can Martin beat Nickal again?

[wrestlingphish 553]

So Martin was ahead early and couldn't keep a lead in the first match and then was down early and couldn't come back in the second.

 

How do you see Martin beating him? And Brooks didn't 'catch' him with that foot sweep he just saw an opening and took it.

[VakAttack 2,115]

1.  Myles has now beaten Bo twice.  Hard to call it a fluike and have to acknowledge that he could do it again, even if I would favor Nickal in each matchup.

2.  Brooks,  though, is a different kind of match up.  Not sure if Myles can withstand the physicality Brooks brings.  Not to say he couldn't beat him, I just think it's a tougher stylistic match up.

[Housebuye 1,892]

That one tournament of 2016 being a "track record"?

 

There's no doubt Martin can beat Nickal (again). Having done THAT twice, has established a "track record"...

That was clearly meant as a joke...

[Housebuye 1,892]

So Martin was ahead early and couldn't keep a lead in the first match and then was down early and couldn't come back in the second.

 

How do you see Martin beating him? And Brooks didn't 'catch' him with that foot sweep he just saw an opening and took it.

Does that mean you are confident in Brooks?

 

I'm pretty confident in Martin. Just rewatched both matches.

[boconnell 1,386]

Does that mean you are confident in Brooks?

 

I'm pretty confident in Martin. Just rewatched both matches.

What was it about how he got beat twice, with the gap widening instead of closing, that made you confident?

[denny 215]

Martin may very well have lots of problems to merely get to Bo. 

 

Well okay let's say that Bo and My Mar do get at each other - again - in the Semi's 

 

There are always strategies to develop anew. More too shall be revealed

[VakAttack 2,115]

Does that mean you are confident in Brooks?

 

I'm pretty confident in Martin. Just rewatched both matches.

 

It's fine to root for your guy, but it takes a pretty interesting spin of the evidence to watch the two Martin-Brooks matches and say "based on the evidence, I feel good about my guy in the rematch!"

[cjc007 536]

Bo looked gassed out in the third period of the last Martin match.

He only scored 4 points!

He couldn't muster much offense in that third period. A telling sign IMO.

 

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[NYWRESTLER94 221]

It's fine to root for your guy, but it takes a pretty interesting spin of the evidence to watch the two Martin-Brooks matches and say "based on the evidence, I feel good about my guy in the rematch!"

we can feel confident because last year he lost a lead to Nickal in the dual and then got pinned at big tens and then he did this really cool thing at nationals

[Housebuye 1,892]

What was it about how he got beat twice, with the gap widening instead of closing, that made you confident?

Good question

 

Martin has shown that he peaks well. 

 

Stylistically it should be a winnable match, but Martin hasn't been able to capitalize on that. I think the coaching staff will correct that. It doesn't require major changes to his game, so I think it can be done in just a week or so.

[Housebuye 1,892]

It's fine to root for your guy, but it takes a pretty interesting spin of the evidence to watch the two Martin-Brooks matches and say "based on the evidence, I feel good about my guy in the rematch!"

Yes, because guys who lose to someone can't ever beat them again. 

 

Watch the matches closely, and you will notice the nuances. It isn't just about wins/losses when analyzing a match.

 

Are you picking Clark over Nato?

[swoopdown 444]

Yeah, if Nickal tries that upper body stuff on Martin again, he'll lose again. Maybe even get pinned the next time.

I'm not in the don't try it camp because-Martin-is-so-much-better-at-upper-body camp. Martin got his bear hug because he moved aggressively in an advantageous position. It was a great move at an opportunistic moment that caught Bo flat footed. (The first time Bo was overly aggressive and as a result vulnerable, a different situation). Kudos to Martin for both moves, he's dangerous good.

 

But if the reverse opportunity present itself, go for it. Move decisively to take it. But careless, half-xxx moves and garbage collection need to be avoided against quality wrestlers who are upper body capable. And although it against his nature, he needs to think defensively when in inferior position.

 

Bo can't be reckless, but it's not Bo if he can't take reasonable risks. No fun at all. And Bo needs all the tools in his kit to be the champ. Competition is too good not too do so.

 

 

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[boconnell 1,386]

Good question

 

Martin has shown that he peaks well. 

 

Stylistically it should be a winnable match, but Martin hasn't been able to capitalize on that. I think the coaching staff will correct that. It doesn't require major changes to his game, so I think it can be done in just a week or so.

I'm not ready to say Martin peaks well yet.  

 

Last year at NCAAs he beat Reed, Weatherspoon, Wanzek, and Hammond to reach the finals.  Hammond was the highest seed of those guys (6) and Hammond got hammered 15-4 by Meyer to get eliminated without AAing.  Weatherspoon earlier upset Realbutto and after he lost to Martin in the semis, he dropped down to get decisively beat twice more for 6th place.  And this season has shown the win over Realbutto was the outlier for Weatherspoon.  Reed upset the #3 and then lost in the round of 12 after losing to Martin in the quarters.

 

This means Martin beat the 6th place guy, a round of 12 guy, and two 1-2 guys.  That is just about the easiest possible path in terms of opponents performance in the tournament and seed.  It is very possible that he made the finals by wrestling a group of 4 guys who would account for ONE TOTAL AA, INCLUDING THE TOURNAMENT HE BEAT THEM IN.  That is the lowest possible total and most likely has not happened many times in history.  I am not knocking him for beating the guys put in front of him, I'm just saying nothing he did to reach the finals showed peaking.  

 

Then he had a fantastic win against Nickal where he really controlled the action and looked like the absolute better wrestler.  

 

Overall a very good Martin performance, with the fantastic win over Bo.  But my take away isn't that he is great at peaking, but rather that he is great at wrestling Bo Nickal.  He has even looked good in most of the losses to Bo (early last season and the first matchup this season especially).  

 

Maybe he is great in March and will be some guy who Brooks has never seen before.  Or maybe he is very good overall, but great against Bo Nickal.  He certainly appeared to be at his March peaking best when he rolled into the Big 10 finals with all the momentum and got crushed by Brooks.

[VakAttack 2,115]

Yes, because guys who lose to someone can't ever beat them again.

 

Watch the matches closely, and you will notice the nuances. It isn't just about wins/losses when analyzing a match.

 

Are you picking Clark over Nato?

You mean the Clark who lost on a technical violation and an escape with literally one second to go? That's the comparison you want to make here?

 

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[denny 215]

In answer to the topic question that the wrestlingnerd posed for us.

 

Yes he can do that  to Bo again. But he will not do that again. 

[TobusRex 1,396]

I think Martin also gave Dean his toughest match of the year so far too, right? 9-5, or something like that. I can't believe Boyd got the #4 seed. John Smith must be a golden tongued devil in those seeding committees, lol.

[madcat11 327]

I'm not ready to say Martin peaks well yet.

 

Last year at NCAAs he beat Reed, Weatherspoon, Wanzek, and Hammond to reach the finals. Hammond was the highest seed of those guys (6) and Hammond got hammered 15-4 by Meyer to get eliminated without AAing. Weatherspoon earlier upset Realbutto and after he lost to Martin in the semis, he dropped down to get decisively beat twice more for 6th place. And this season has shown the win over Realbutto was the outlier for Weatherspoon. Reed upset the #3 and then lost in the round of 12 after losing to Martin in the quarters.

 

This means Martin beat the 6th place guy, a round of 12 guy, and two 1-2 guys. That is just about the easiest possible path in terms of opponents performance in the tournament and seed. It is very possible that he made the finals by wrestling a group of 4 guys who would account for ONE TOTAL AA, INCLUDING THE TOURNAMENT HE BEAT THEM IN. That is the lowest possible total and most likely has not happened many times in history. I am not knocking him for beating the guys put in front of him, I'm just saying nothing he did to reach the finals showed peaking.

 

Then he had a fantastic win against Nickal where he really controlled the action and looked like the absolute better wrestler.

 

Overall a very good Martin performance, with the fantastic win over Bo. But my take away isn't that he is great at peaking, but rather that he is great at wrestling Bo Nickal. He has even looked good in most of the losses to Bo (early last season and the first matchup this season especially).

 

Maybe he is great in March and will be some guy who Brooks has never seen before. Or maybe he is very good overall, but great against Bo Nickal. He certainly appeared to be at his March peaking best when he rolled into the Big 10 finals with all the momentum and got crushed by Brooks.

He has also dominated a national finalist twice this year.

[Buckeyebison 87]

You mean the Clark who lost on a technical violation and an escape with literally one second to go? That's the comparison you want to make here?

 

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based on that match, there are going to many people on either side. It's fine. It's good. It's nice to see many people supporting either of them. Iowa fans are going to pick Clark over NATO every time. Great. Clark needs the support. While we the Buckeyes are going to pick NATO over Clark every time.

 

It's a good rivalry!!

[VakAttack 2,115]

based on that match, there are going to many people on either side. It's fine. It's good. It's nice to see many people supporting either of them. Iowa fans are going to pick Clark over NATO every time. Great. Clark needs the support. While we the Buckeyes are going to pick NATO over Clark every time.

 

It's a good rivalry!!

I actually didn't pick Clark until that match. Prior to that I'd been saying NaTo was the favorite and would win.

 

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[PapaBearSLIM 48]

Martin may very well have lots of problems to merely get to Bo.

 

Well okay let's say that Bo and My Mar do get at each other - again - in the Semi's

 

There are always strategies to develop anew. More too shall be revealed

They could meet on the backside or a place match.

[Fletcher 532]

Do we all at least agree that out of Nickal, Martin, Brooks & Dudley, Nickal has the best chance at challenging Dean?

 

I could care less about the team standings and however this weight shakes out, I'll be disappointed if we don't get to see a Dean-Nickal final.

[Housebuye 1,892]

Do we all at least agree that out of Nickal, Martin, Brooks & Dudley, Nickal has the best chance at challenging Dean?

 

I could care less about the team standings and however this weight shakes out, I'll be disappointed if we don't get to see a Dean-Nickal final.

 

Really want to see Bo vs Dean. Would be very annoying if the clear #1 and #2 don't wrestle. 

 

With that said, this weight could vary well decide the team race, seeing as all contenders have a guy who "should" AA. 

[ionel 771]

Really want to see Bo vs Dean. Would be very annoying if the clear #1 and #2 don't wrestle. 

 

 

generally the clear #1 and #2 are the guys who wrestle in the finals, hence why we use a tournament brackets style approach ;)

[PapaBearSLIM 48]

Do we all at least agree that out of Nickal, Martin, Brooks & Dudley, Nickal has the best chance at challenging Dean?

 

I could care less about the team standings and however this weight shakes out, I'll be disappointed if we don't get to see a Dean-Nickal final.

"Ya can't please everybody"

-Sammy Brooks

[teach 142]

I think Steve Martin (the ODU coach) can beat Nickal