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Eagle26

Worst seed jobs

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Not only does Micah Jordan's heads up resume against Mayes argues a better seed (3 instead 4), the fact that Mayes didn't wrestle when they had a heads up opportunity this season should have altered the balance in decision.

 

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not saying Mayes ducked Micah and he very well may have been hurt.... I'm just saying the fact Micah was able to present himself and Mayes wasn't is no different than Suriano not getting the 2 seed over Joey Dance because of defaulting the big 10's. Seeds aren't based off predictions of health at the tourney, it's off past occurrences.

 

I just think it sets a precedent of sitting wrestlers in key matches to protect a seed... And this is coming from a Tom Ryan Ohio State fan. I think when your comparing two like resume wrestlers like Micah and Mayes and one wrestler sat out a matchup during the season (injured or not), the wrestler who presented himself should be rewarded the higher seed if no other reason than to prevent sitting wrestlers to protect seeds.

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Not only does Micah Jordan's heads up resume against Mayes argues a better seed (3 instead 4), the fact that Mayes didn't wrestle when they had a heads up opportunity this season should have altered the balance in decision.

 

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not saying Mayes ducked Micah and he very well may have been hurt.... I'm just saying the fact Micah was able to present himself and Mayes wasn't is no different than Suriano not getting the 2 seed over Joey Dance because of defaulting the big 10's. Seeds aren't based off predictions of health at the tourney, it's off past occurrences.

 

I just think it sets a precedent of sitting wrestlers in key matches to protect a seed... And this is coming from a Tom Ryan Ohio State fan. I think when your comparing two like resume wrestlers like Micah and Mayes and one wrestler sat out a matchup during the season (injured or not), the wrestler who presented himself should be rewarded the higher seed if no other reason than to prevent sitting wrestlers to protect seeds.

 

By that reasoning though then you're penalizing a guy for being hurt.  I'm sure that it was a close vote between the 2, but Mayes split with the #2 seed, and Jordan got teched TWICE by the top seed.  I'm guessing that was probably the difference.

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I hate 33, but I knew it would shake out that way.  The big ten kids get hosed because they beat up on each other.  Throw Gross or Brock  in the big ten schedule I'm guessing each takes at least one additional loss.  That's not a knock on either, both are tough, just 33 in the big ten was brutal this year. I mean freaking Zane Richards is 8 seed, the returning finalist at the same weight. That first period for Brock against Clark was huge. Can't argue Jordan over Mayes, though I think Jordan beats him, but same thing happened here with Zain, Sorenson and Jordan. All in all the seeding looked better than some of the previous debacles

Clark's best win outside the Big 10 - Korbin Meyers

Micic's best win outside the Big 10 - Korbin Meyers

Richards' best win outside the Big 10 - Jamal Morris

 

When you don't wrestle anyone outside your conference, your entire conference can be dragged down or lifted up by a single out of conference win or loss.  If Clark had beaten Brock, then all of them move up multiple spots even though only Clark beat him.  But Clark lost to Brock so all of them moved down even though only Clark lost.  

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There are plenty of tough brackets and seed/draw issues, its the NCAA tournament - its supposed to be tough.  But to go the opposite throw NaTo in the B12 schedule and he might have 3 losses.  Brock's 2 losses are to Gross, both in matches where if he doesn't chose bottom (not JS approach in season) perhaps wins and one where he had a called take down waved off.  Gross's one lose was SV.  Gross is pretty tough I don't think there are any easy sides to the brackets.  But then look at 125, JRod would've had only one loss and probably got the 3 seed if he hadn't lost in SV to Picc in B12 final.  And even then I don't see how a guy who doesn't wrestle the tourney gets a higher seed, and how seeded over Lambert and the Lizard.  But because of it JRod (with only 2 loses) gets the 9 seed with potentially facing Picc all over again in the 2nds match.  I'm sure neither of them were thrilled with that seeding outcome and would probably rather be an 11 seed than 8 or 9.  It's just plain tough.

Agree completely on the JRod issue, ionel....On top of a #9 seed raw deal draw, you have LIzak ranked below JRod all year, loses to Youtsey @ BigX- and Liz gets one terrific draw at #6? Potential quarter finals, and if Suriano is still hurt, there are semifinals possibilities. Suriano, IMO, should have had his name drawn out of a hat, after the top 16.

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By that reasoning though then you're penalizing a guy for being hurt. I'm sure that it was a close vote between the 2, but Mayes split with the #2 seed, and Jordan got teched TWICE by the top seed. I'm guessing that was probably the difference.

And by your reasoning your rewarding a wrestler whose ducking an opponent possibly to protect a seed just by saying they are injured. Didn't Suriano just lose the #2 seed because of injury? If your comparing apples to apples, yes I think a wrestler who was injured and not able to present himself against his common opponent should lose the top seed to a wrestler who was able to. I do t think this criteria should make wrestlers equal... But I do think it should be used as a tie breaker of two equal resumes. It absolutely motivates a coach and competitor to wrestle and not protect seeds and in the rare instance the scenario comes up like Micah/Mayes, the injured wrestler loses out in the better seed to the healthier wrestler. If it helps prevent sitting to protect seeds, it's a minimal sacrifice when looking at the big picture.

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I am curious how Smith at 11-4 at 157 gets the #5 seed.

 

I haven't followed his season, so this really surprises me.  

I think Smith and Palacio both got undeserved seeds based on how bad the weight is and how poor the cases for the rest of the guys to be seeded ahead of them.  I think in a deeper weight both guys would have been punished more stiffly.

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I think Smith and Palacio both got undeserved seeds based on how bad the weight is and how poor the cases for the rest of the guys to be seeded ahead of them.  I think in a deeper weight both guys would have been punished more stiffly.

 

That is what I thought,  seems like he beat a pretty good kid from NDST in the B12 finals,  maybe that counted for a lot.  And yes 157 is pretty weak this year. 

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Lizak wasn't ranked below Rodriguez all year. Lizak has wins over #4 Cruz, #5 Lambert, and #8 Piccinini(who just beat JRod). JRod's best win is #10 Mueller, who Lizak also beat.

Lizak hasn't been in the top 4 all year. Rodriguez has (had) been 4 for quite some time.

Edited by Doc_Hfuhruhurr

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I think we should all congratulate the seeding committee. usually by this time there are multiple threads for each weight class with incredible meltdowns over any number of seeding atrocities. pretty tame this year. 

 

Agreed. I only started this thread to try to bring up some commotion. I thought I was missing something... I couldn't believe how tame it was.

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I can't believe 141.   Jimmy Gulibon stuck the 1 seed -- twice -- and gets thrown in with the cattle!  What are they thinking? National Duals is being treated like the All-Star dual now.  

The seeding committee is starting to act like the DNC -- some candidates just aren't going to lose the nomination no matter how many times they get stuck.

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Not only does Micah Jordan's heads up resume against Mayes argues a better seed (3 instead 4), the fact that Mayes didn't wrestle when they had a heads up opportunity this season should have altered the balance in decision.

 

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not saying Mayes ducked Micah and he very well may have been hurt.... I'm just saying the fact Micah was able to present himself and Mayes wasn't is no different than Suriano not getting the 2 seed over Joey Dance because of defaulting the big 10's. Seeds aren't based off predictions of health at the tourney, it's off past occurrences.

 

I just think it sets a precedent of sitting wrestlers in key matches to protect a seed... And this is coming from a Tom Ryan Ohio State fan. I think when your comparing two like resume wrestlers like Micah and Mayes and one wrestler sat out a matchup during the season (injured or not), the wrestler who presented himself should be rewarded the higher seed if no other reason than to prevent sitting wrestlers to protect seeds.

That precedent was set long before Mayes missed that match. Care to guess who set it and keeps reinforcing it?

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Not only does Micah Jordan's heads up resume against Mayes argues a better seed (3 instead 4), the fact that Mayes didn't wrestle when they had a heads up opportunity this season should have altered the balance in decision.

 

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not saying Mayes ducked Micah and he very well may have been hurt.... I'm just saying the fact Micah was able to present himself and Mayes wasn't is no different than Suriano not getting the 2 seed over Joey Dance because of defaulting the big 10's. Seeds aren't based off predictions of health at the tourney, it's off past occurrences.

 

I just think it sets a precedent of sitting wrestlers in key matches to protect a seed... And this is coming from a Tom Ryan Ohio State fan. I think when your comparing two like resume wrestlers like Micah and Mayes and one wrestler sat out a matchup during the season (injured or not), the wrestler who presented himself should be rewarded the higher seed if no other reason than to prevent sitting wrestlers to protect seeds.

Take a look at NCAA seeding criteria.  Mayes has more wins against quality opponents (8 wins against seeded wrestlers vs 6 for Jordan), a higher coaches rank (4 vs 5 in most recent one I could find), a higher placement in conference tournament, a higher win percentage, and a higher RPI ranking (2 vs 6 in most recent one I could find).  There were no head-to-head matches and both were undefeated against common opponents.  Mayes did have a loss outside the top 5 (7 seed Thomsen is no slouch), but you could also hold Jordan's tech fall losses against him.  Even if the committee wanted to hold the MU/tOSU dual against Mayes, his seeding resume was clearly superior.

 

IMO, Suriano's situation isn't really comparable to a dual match between Mayes/Jordan.  By rule, Suriano had to wrestle a match at B10s to qualify for NCAAs.  He decided to take one loss and have more time to rehabilitate.  In the grand scheme of things, unless he won B10s, I'm guessing he wasn't getting the two seed anyway as Dance was ahead of him in several criterion.  

 

Duals aren't a pre-requisite for NCAAs, so lineups often change (e.g., Bo Jordan and K Snyder this year).  Mayes missed a month of matches during the time of the MU/tOSU dual.  It's very doubtful he was ducking Jordan, considering Missouri's Manley beat Micah at 141 a year ago.  Mayes wrestled every other tough dual and tourney after returning from injury.

 

I can certainly understand the frustration for tOSU fans, considering the difference between a 3 and 4 seed is huge at 149.  

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I can certainly understand the frustration for tOSU fans, considering the difference between a 3 and 4 seed is huge at 149.  

 

Not really since both 3 and 4 are likely to make it to the semis then drop to the consi anyway. Coupling that with the fact that he could just as easily lose in the quarters on either side in this case I don't see a significant difference. I think Jordan scores about the same number of points regardless of which side of the bracket he's on.

 

Now at 133 the difference between 3 and 4 is huge since I think the two best wrestlers are in the same side and will meet in the semis. 

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Not really since both 3 and 4 are likely to make it to the semis then drop to the consi anyway. Coupling that with the fact that he could just as easily lose in the quarters on either side in this case I don't see a significant difference. I think Jordan scores about the same number of points regardless of which side of the bracket he's on.

 

Now at 133 the difference between 3 and 4 is huge since I think the two best wrestlers are in the same side and will meet in the semis. 

That's an interesting take since at 133 the 4 has been beat by the 3 and has zero claim to the 3 seed but at 149 the 4 has not been beat by the 2 or the 3.  

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Not really since both 3 and 4 are likely to make it to the semis then drop to the consi anyway. Coupling that with the fact that he could just as easily lose in the quarters on either side in this case I don't see a significant difference. I think Jordan scores about the same number of points regardless of which side of the bracket he's on.

 

Now at 133 the difference between 3 and 4 is huge since I think the two best wrestlers are in the same side and will meet in the semis. 

 

Well, Mayes beat Collica head-to-head about a month ago, and throughout their careers they've split fairly evenly.  So the difference between 3rd and 4th here may be fairly significant.

Edited by KCMO2

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I can't believe 141. Jimmy Gulibon stuck the 1 seed -- twice -- and gets thrown in with the cattle! What are they thinking? National Duals is being treated like the All-Star dual now.

More Grade A trolling.

Edited by bigtenfan

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Well, Mayes beat Collica head-to-head about a month ago, and throughout their careers they've split fairly evenly.  So the difference between 3rd and 4th here may be fairly significant.

This.  If Jordan was the 3, I think he'd also have a competitive match against Collica in the semis.  But based on his previous matches against Retherford, Jordan has almost no chance to make the finals as the 4.  Plus, he'll have a really tough quarter against Sorenson.

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This.  If Jordan was the 3, I think he'd also have a competitive match against Collica in the semis.  But based on his previous matches against Retherford, Jordan has almost no chance to make the finals as the 4.  Plus, he'll have a really tough quarter against Sorenson.

 

He could beat Sorensen, although I'd put it at 40% at best. Although maybe something is off with Sorensen? He has looked worse this year than the last two years. He is still very talented and could very well place 3rd. 

 

tOSU needs a lot of points out of Micah for the title. He could've reached the finals if he was on the other side, although it would still be unlikely. With this draw, he will likely place 5th. 

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Interesting #3 seed Vincenzo Joseph gets the Stanford wrestler who beat him 18-12 at the beginning of the year.

 

Really shouldn't be a problem for him.  Interested to see him and Massa should they wrestle.  I give Massa the nod as he is a bit more relentless. 

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