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bigtenfan

Who's Gonna Pull the Austin DeSanto @ NCAAs

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It doesn't appear to have damaged him. Thats a decision for him and his parents.

 

Tom Clum is still doing great things in wrestling. He, his brother Dan and some other folks run a nonprofit club that has helped lots of kids get to college wrestling. Their club is The Milehigh Wrestling Club

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This x1000000

 

One one hand, this sort of thing is what makes wrestling awesome - one guy going for a perfect hs record & fourth state title with a torn ACL, the other cutting down a weight to compete with one of the toughest wrestlers in the country and avenge last year's loss (also, didn't someone here mention a kid in Utah or something who won his fourth state title with a torn ACL a few weeks ago?). What a storyline... But on the other hand, SL has far bigger and better things in his future - as long as he stays healthy. I can understand wrestlers being stubborn about competing through injury, taking in the hype, wanting to get out on the mat no matter what, etc. but the parents, coaches and staff need to consider what's best for the athlete before themselves.

I agree. Just like Suriano. He should not risk hurting his ankle more unless it's for an Olympic medal.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Some of you guys are being very judgemental without any knowledge. You guys know better than the 18 year old involved, his parents, and the doctor for the Pittsburgh Steelers?!? There are people that have torn ACLs and never get surgery because the knee is stable enough without it. I'm not saying this is the case for Lee, but obviously it was stable enough for him to wrestle without sustaining further injury. I am glad I did not have to make that decision to wrestle or not, but I wouldn't criticize the kid, the coaches, or the family either way. The kid had an opportunity to cement himself as arguably the greatest high school wrestler ever. Why would you want him to give up on that dream when the doctor gave him the OK?

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Some of you guys are being very judgemental without any knowledge. You guys know better than the 18 year old involved, his parents, and the doctor for the Pittsburgh Steelers?!? There are people that have torn ACLs and never get surgery because the knee is stable enough without it. I'm not saying this is the case for Lee, but obviously it was stable enough for him to wrestle without sustaining further injury. I am glad I did not have to make that decision to wrestle or not, but I wouldn't criticize the kid, the coaches, or the family either way. The kid had an opportunity to cement himself as arguably the greatest high school wrestler ever. Why would you want him to give up on that dream when the doctor gave him the OK?

We have all the knowledge we need from Dad's own mouth.  Confirmed ACL tear.  As a coach or parent you don't let a kid wrestle with a confirmed ACL tear.  

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The best comment would be "No comment. Let Desanto enjoy his win."

 

Not "we need to see how much damage happened to his knee these last 3 weeks, but no excuses."

 

That's like saying: Here's my excuse. But no excuses.

 

Yeah, that's not condescending or anything...

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We have all the knowledge we need from Dad's own mouth. Confirmed ACL tear. As a coach or parent you don't let a kid wrestle with a confirmed ACL tear.

YOU don't let your kid do it! Spencer's dad did, his doctor also said ok. I'm guessing they know more about it than you do. Just a guess though. Please inform us why an athlete shouldn't be allowed to compete with an acl injury

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YOU don't let your kid do it! Spencer's dad did, his doctor also said ok. I'm guessing they know more about it than you do. Just a guess though. Please inform us why an athlete shouldn't be allowed to compete with an acl injury

You need an answer why an ACL tear should prevent a HS student from competing?  

 

Emotionally it might be a hard choice and I wish his family never had to go through it, but medically it's not a hard decision.  

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You need an answer why an ACL tear should prevent a HS student from competing?  

 

Emotionally it might be a hard choice and I wish his family never had to go through it, but medically it's not a hard decision.

 

I would like an answer as well. From my understanding, you can't tear a ligament that is already torn. I guess potentially you could tear something else such as an mcl or meniscus. However, the recovery for the ACL reconstruction is longer than the other ligaments, so essentially tearing another ligament is inconsequential. Also, as I mentioned before each individual is different and some knees are very stable with a torn ACL. Why would you not try to make history if the worst case scenario is you have to have knee surgery that you will have to get either way?

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I would like an answer as well. From my understanding, you can't tear a ligament that is already torn. I guess potentially you could tear something else such as an mcl or meniscus. However, the recovery for the ACL reconstruction is longer than the other ligaments, so essentially tearing another ligament is inconsequential. Also, as I mentioned before each individual is different and some knees are very stable with a torn ACL. Why would you not try to make history if the worst case scenario is you have to have knee surgery that you will have to get either way?

In some sense, you are correct that you cannot tear an ACL that is already torn.  However, the key is exactly what you point out about the other ligaments/cartilage in the knee. The brace helps a bit, but in a wrestling match you are still going to put unnecessary stress/pressure on it. The ACL can be replaced, but serious damage to the knee beyond just the ACL can be career ending. 

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sportsdoc/Do-I-need-an-ACL-to-play.html

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All the guys whining about how injured athletes compete all the time, so why shouldn't Lee, are completely missing the point. Nobody is saying an ACL tear should automatically bench you. No sh*t, we all know the hundreds of stories of guys who did amazing things without an ACL.

 

The point is, why risk further injury IN HS? Even the biggest hater would acknowledge Lee has bigger things in store. When the head coach of a major D1 program takes a day or two off to come watch during NCAA tournament prep week, you're pretty special. Lee had absolutely zero left to prove in HS. Why risk further injury? The ACL is the key stabilizing ligament of the kneee joint. Bad things can happen when you don't have one and you compete in a contact sport anyway. Even a 5% chance of career limiting injury is too much.

 

The world (literally) knows Lee is tough and good at wrestling. Another state title won't change that at all. Save the heroics for when it really matters to his career. That's the point. It's not like we're talking about a sore muscle or a booboo you can kiss away.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Tearing an ACL isn't exactly life threatening. It will probably affect your preparation and flexibility- especially because of the brace. The most else you're likely to injure in the short time like this is cartilage due to lack of stability. Assuming he'll go in for surgery he'll be back at it by next season- when he'll probably red-shirt anyway.

It doesn't look like he did anything else to it this weekend. Who knows if he comes back where he was but that was the case anyway.

I've been through this starting back before modern surgical techniques when they said I didn't want to have the surgery. I did do damage to the cartilage in the 12 years before I had it done. I probably need a new knee but I'm not crippled. I wore similar braces. They really are only there to prevent large scale motion. For me I found it was better to wear a sleeve but I wasn't wrestling on it so I'm not criticizing the use of the brace.

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The ACL provides almost all of the stability to the knee.  Without it everything else is at risk.  That's why there is an attempt at providing artificial stability with the brace.  Lack of stability leads to cartilage or meniscus risk.  ACL replacement can be rehabbed back to 100% but both of those things are degenerative in nature and will never be the same.  

 

Basically if you get ACL surgery you are 100% 8-10 months later (a brutal process from personal experience, but not so hard on an 18 year old).

 

If you damage cartilage or meniscus you are beginning a long and irreversible decline in knee health.  

 

So yes, you can compete without fixing it.  Some people never fix it.  They just called it a trick knee 30 years ago.  NBA Player Malik Rose had no ACL at all after an injury.  It was torn so he just had it removed because he didn't have long left and could get by without it.  No two situations are identical.  

 

But at 18 years old there is no reason to risk future health and take any option other than immediate surgery.  You are gambling with not just your ability to compete in the future but your ability to move pain free.  

 

I hope the gamble was a success, no further damage was done, and he has the surgery and is better than ever in a year.  The rehab may even help him grow since weights will be all he can do for a while and he won't weigh in until next year.

 

But when an 18 year old who thinks he's indestructible decides to compete on a torn ACL, one of the many adults in his life needs to say 'I love your heart, but not this time.'

Edited by boconnell

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Cartilage is much worse than ligament. Ligament you can replace surgically and be literally 100% again. Cartilage, not so much. To suggest it's only cartilage at risk (as opposed to, wait for it, life!!) is, well, naive.

 

 

Naive? I had it. The replacements- unless a cadaver ACL or artificial (most are still hamstring or patellar tendon I believe)- aren't shaped the same and don't move/stretch exactly the same. It will affect flexibility. It will take a while to regain the explosiveness in the quads/hamstrings although modern rehab will generally take care of this pretty well if you are dedicated enough. Yes, although there are cartilage growth techniques, I would agree that you don't replace cartilage. But you can trim- partial meniscectomy- and come back very quickly- sometimes in a few days- with little peripheral involvement.

The main thing is here- not so much that I think that more damage is unlikely but that they can decide what's best for them. The further resulting damage is more likely over the long term than the short term. He didn't train in such a way as to take too many chances (from what I gather- no inside info- I don't know them at all) and probably walked through the first several opponents. Anderson seemed like the first to test him. Even in that bout it didn't look like too many bad positions. The final was the biggest chance.

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Again, the point: why take the chance now? It's not like he hasn't beat up on all the kids there before.... his college and international goals gain literally zero from the risk incurred. NOT an intelligent decision. Purely an emotional one. Understandable to some degree, but nevertheless stupid.

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Again, the point: why take the chance now? It's not like he hasn't beat up on all the kids there before.... his college and international goals gain literally zero from the risk incurred. NOT an intelligent decision. Purely an emotional one. Understandable to some degree, but nevertheless stupid.

You're correct sir. Outcomes like these are why I utterly detest emotionalism and sentimentalism.

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OK. Whatever. You are clearly the type of person who likes to be argumentative and will never be satisfied with an opinion different than yours.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not to mention he is knob. 

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Absolutely hate this. Nothing like dad making an excuse as soon as his son loses. It's now abundantly clear his son had a torn acl. But why do you have to tell everyone that after the match? If it wasn't a big enough reason to not wrestle in the first place then don't bring it up as a reason for being limited right after the match (even if it's true). It's just poor sportsmanship.

 

So answering a question and disclosing something, regardless of the outcome, that was going to be disclosed is bad sportsmanship? I don't see anyone in Lee's camp calling it an excuse, and all of them have been gracious. Your take is laughable. 

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I thought it was a helluva match but it was obvious Lee lacked stability in his one knee.  Lee is arguably the greatest high school wrestler in history.   I doubt he was risking a lot by competing on it.  

 

Iowa is getting an instant title contender....heck they're getting a 4x NCAA champ potentially...if Lee can stay healthy.  

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I don't blame him one bit for going out there.   More importantly, it is his knee.  If he felt he could win on it and has been working towards being a 4 timer for years, who are any of you to say it was a bad decision or that you know better than him how he should prioritize his goals?  he was in the match right to the end and almost got to cross off one of those big goals most of us could never have achieved.  I respect the courage and dedication.   I certainly wouldn't stand in his way for some hypothetical goal years into a future that isn't certain if I was his coach or father, especially if the doc said aok to go.  carpe diem!  Hopefully he heals up quickly.   

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