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Riley Lefever 4x DIII National Champion

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Even being an AA at any level is an accomplishment but being an multi time champ (let alone 4X) is amazing.

 

Being an AA at the D3 level isn't much of an accomplishment imo. This Lefever kid is far from amazing to me. Does he even have greater career wins than a guy like Jimmy Gulibon?

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Being an AA at the D3 level isn't much of an accomplishment imo. This Lefever kid is far from amazing to me. Does he even have greater career wins than a guy like Jimmy Gulibon?

I'm guessing you've never followed (or cared to follow) the D3 tournament to actually have an understanding of what you're talking about ...

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I'm guessing you've never followed (or cared to follow) the D3 tournament to actually have an understanding of what you're talking about ...

No, I have watched the D3 finals on several occasions. The quality of wrestling and talent is noticeably lower than D1. It's funny that there are plenty of guys not considered great on the D1 level who have better wins and accomplishments than D3 "All Americans" who are supposed to be considered great. I can't consider this guy to be on par with the likes of Martinez, Heil, Dean, Retherford, etc.

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Being an AA at the D3 level isn't much of an accomplishment imo. This Lefever kid is far from amazing to me. Does he even have greater career wins than a guy like Jimmy Gulibon?

You are the type of guy that thinks being a one time All-American is just an average career, aren't you?

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Just did a little research. This guy is a 4X champ with a 129-0 record against D3 competition. He led the D3 "Most Dominant" list with a 5.79 average per match.

 

This season he went to the Midlands and went 2-2 and failed to place. Both of his losses were to kids who have never made the award stand in D1.

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Just did a little research. This guy is a 4X champ with a 129-0 record against D3 competition. He led the D3 "Most Dominant" list with a 5.79 average per match.

 

This season he went to the Midlands and went 2-2 and failed to place. Both of his losses were to kids who have never made the award stand in D1.

Regardless of what accomplishment has been earned, every wrestler has achieved the status of being a WRESTLER. The article in Forbes magazine about why wrestlers make great employees doesn't mention "the quality and number of wins" a wrestler achieved. The best wrestlers are those that achieved greatness in life as a result in part from the lessons they learned from Civilization's Oldest and Greatest Sport!

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He's not a D3 AA--he's a 4x Champion, with no redshirts, and an undefeated record against D3 competition all 4 years. This year, in 24 matches, including nationals, he had 21 pins, 2 techs in 24 matches. He managed only a 17-5 win in the national semi-final.

 

He wouldn't beat J'Den Cox, but he would absolutely bang with anyone else in D1 this year. With only this year's results, he would be a top 10-12 seed and a legit AA contender--all while working out against a collection of ex-D3 guys that just try to stay fresh enough to push him because he doesn't have anyone on his #3-finishing team that can go with him.

 

Wins over D1 guys this year (7):

5-2 over #7 seed Studebaker of Nebraska

5-4 over qualifier Wilcke of Iowa

pin of qualifier Orndorff of UVU

12-4 over 1st teamer Striggow of Michigan

8-6 over redshirt Schultz of Nebraska

pin of redshirt Kemp of CMU

pin again of redshirt Kemp of CMU

 

Losses to D1 guys this year (3):

4-5 to #8 seed Wolfe of Rider

6-11 to #3 seed Moore of Ohio St.

2-7 to qualifier Williams of CSUB

 

In 2015-16 at 184, he was 3-0 vs. D1 guys:

5-2 over national qualifier/former AA Courts of Ohio St.

3-0 over Ohio St. backup Prather

12-4 over current EMU 1st teamer MacCallum

 

And none of this gets into the many wins over D1 guys he's gotten every off-season the past few years in freestyle tournaments.

 

No one's saying he's Kyle Snyder by winning four D3 titles, but he's a beast. He goes to a very strong academic school and went from a losing record his freshman year of high school to only a runner-up finish as his best ever in high school to being undefeated and eventually untouchable in D3, while racking up lots of D1 collars along the way. It's a great story, and that's all anyone is trying to say.

Edited by maligned

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Regardless of what accomplishment has been earned, every wrestler has achieved the status of being a WRESTLER. The article in Forbes magazine about why wrestlers make great employees doesn't mention "the quality and number of wins" a wrestler achieved. The best wrestlers are those that achieved greatness in life as a result in part from the lessons they learned from Civilization's Oldest and Greatest Sport!

In light of what you just said, probably 99% of all wrestlers are "better" than Jack Cuvo.

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Maligned,

 

I hope no one is trying to say he's Kyle Snyder; he's arguably not even Jimmy Gulibon.

 

I completely disagree that he's a beast. He didn't place at Midlands and that tournament gives medals to the Top 8 finishers. Think about it this way, will anyone be calling the kid from Rider who beat him, Wolfe, a beast at the end of this season? What about the guy ranked outside the top 20 who beat him from CSU?

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Maligned,

 

I hope no one is trying to say he's Kyle Snyder; he's arguably not even Jimmy Gulibon.

 

I completely disagree that he's a beast. He didn't place at Midlands and that tournament gives medals to the Top 8 finishers. Think about it this way, will anyone be calling the kid from Rider who beat him, Wolfe, a beast at the end of this season? What about the guy ranked outside the top 20 who beat him from CSU?

I really hope you have some great accomplishments in your career to present yourself like this.

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Being an AA at the D3 level isn't much of an accomplishment imo. This Lefever kid is far from amazing to me. Does he even have greater career wins than a guy like Jimmy Gulibon?

Did you actually wrestle in college? I ask because nobody who did would say that. College wrestling is tough at every level. Sure there is a group at the pinnacle of DI but if you think it's easy to AA in any division you're fooling yourself.  

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Maligned,

 

I hope no one is trying to say he's Kyle Snyder; he's arguably not even Jimmy Gulibon.

 

I completely disagree that he's a beast. He didn't place at Midlands and that tournament gives medals to the Top 8 finishers. Think about it this way, will anyone be calling the kid from Rider who beat him, Wolfe, a beast at the end of this season? What about the guy ranked outside the top 20 who beat him from CSU?

 

Who's your favorite wrestler? I would like the opportunity to cherry pick his results too. Lefever had an awful performance at Midlands--but he also beat the Midlands champ. You can see his season resume against D1 competition and know that he would be a 10-12 seed. I don't know what Gulibon has to do with anything, but he seems to be your favorite, so I'll take the bait on that one: 

 

(I'll start with one stat that's a "push", sort of, but even this is misleading because Lefever faced a higher % of seeds from these matches)

Lefever vs. national qualifiers: 3-3

Gulibon vs. national qualifiers: 8-8

 

Lefever's best win: #7 seed

Gulibon's best win: #12 seed

 

(both guys faced 70% NCAA qualifiers in D1 matches)

Lefever win% against D1: .700

Gulibon win% against D1: .583

 

Lefever pin record in 10 tries: 2-0

Gulibon pin record in 24 tries: 0-4

 

Just as any Top 10 Division I wrestler qualifies as a beast in one way or another: Riley Lefever is a beast. And the 129-0 record compiled during 4 non-redshirt years (and he's still only 21), including 3 as the most dominant in D3, is an incredible accomplishment that many past D1 guys with nice high school national accolades "dropped" to D3 and didn't touch.

 

When we're calling him a beast, we're celebrating his accomplishment and not stressing too much about the semantics. 

Edited by maligned

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Did you actually wrestle in college? I ask because nobody who did would say that. College wrestling is tough at every level. Sure there is a group at the pinnacle of DI but if you think it's easy to AA in any division you're fooling yourself.

 

D3 is considerably less tough than D1. Easy is relative. I think a lot of D1 wrestlers would find it easy to make "All American" at the D3 nationals. Wouldn't you expect the same if elite D1 wrestlers moved down to wrestle weaker competition at a less intense level? I don't see how what I'm saying is remotely controversial.

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D3 is considerably less tough than D1. Easy is relative. I think a lot of D1 wrestlers would find it easy to make "All American" at the D3 nationals. Wouldn't you expect the same if elite D1 wrestlers moved down to wrestle weaker competition at a less intense level? I don't see how what I'm saying is remotely controversial.

I noticed you did not answer my question.

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Who's your favorite wrestler? I would like the opportunity to cherry pick his results too. Lefever had an awful performance at Midlands--but he also beat the Midlands champ. You can see his season resume against D1 competition and know that he would be a 10-12 seed. I don't know what Gulibon has to do with anything, but he seems to be your favorite, so I'll take the bait on that one:

 

(I'll start with one stat that's a "push", sort of, but even this is misleading because Lefever faced a higher % of seeds from these matches)

Lefever vs. national qualifiers: 3-3

Gulibon vs. national qualifiers: 8-8

 

Lefever's best win: #7 seed

Gulibon's best win: #12 seed

 

(both guys faced 70% NCAA qualifiers in D1 matches)

Lefever win% against D1: .700

Gulibon win% against D1: .583

 

Lefever pin record in 10 tries: 2-0

Gulibon pin record in 24 tries: 0-4

 

Just as any Top 10 Division I wrestler qualifies as a beast in one way or another: Riley Lefever is a beast. And the 129-0 record compiled during 4 non-redshirt years (and he's still only 21), including 3 as the most dominant in D3, is an incredible accomplishment that many past D1 guys with nice high school national accolades "dropped" to D3 and didn't touch.

 

When we're calling him a beast, we're celebrating his accomplishment and not stressing too much about the semantics.

 

You only compared one year from each of their careers. This was the guy's best year and he still may not out perform Gulibon (still have NCAAS to go). Just take a step back for a second and look at the big picture. There is a celebratory thread about a guy who might be a 10-12 seed if he wrestled in D1 in his best year. In light of that fact, his accomplishments against far lesser wrestlers don't seem all that special. There are guys who have caught a lot of flack on this board that have greater accomplishments than this guy. I'm thinking Johnni Dijulius, Alton, older Tsirtsis, etc.

 

And by what standard are you saying that his Midlands performance was bad? When has he ever consistently wrestled above that level?

Edited by bigmik

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