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Eagle26

Pitt coach

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Why not?

 

 

GuyuteThePig

HTP

 

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My assumption is that wrestling is like every sport at Pitt -- apart from football and basketball.  They don't make money, they don't come close to making money and they aren't going to make money in the future. Not a problem. Its a college sport.  Its not the point of existence.  Why should the AD take a significant slice of another sports budget and give it to a coach? There is no payoff. It doesn't make sense.  They are better off hiring  a passionate young guy that shares their values.

There are probably other issues like Title IX and EOE that would require coaches in all sports to make  a similar amount and so this salary has to be scaled across many sports.  It is a lot of money.  At some point, a sport(s) is going to be cut.  Budgets matter.

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My assumption is that wrestling is like every sport at Pitt -- apart from football and basketball.  They don't make money, they don't come close to making money and they aren't going to make money in the future. Not a problem. Its a college sport.  Its not the point of existence.  Why should the AD take a significant slice of another sports budget and give it to a coach? There is no payoff. It doesn't make sense.  They are better off hiring  a passionate young guy that shares their values.

There are probably other issues like Title IX and EOE that would require coaches in all sports to make  a similar amount and so this salary has to be scaled across many sports.  It is a lot of money.  At some point, a sport(s) is going to be cut.  Budgets matter.

Why not challenge the coach to have his program produce?

Wrestling can make money.

 

You telling me PSU doesn't make money??

They do.

Therefore, if Cael wants a raise it should be justified.

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Why not challenge the coach to have his program produce?

Wrestling can make money.

 

You telling me PSU doesn't make money??

They do.

Therefore, if Cael wants a raise it should be justified.

I highly doubt PSU makes money...i.e., more than covers the costs of the program. However, they significantly close the gap which is more than most other non-revenue sports teams can say. Also, they probably benefit from the national recognition which leads to increased donations, annual giving etc...

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Penn State wrestling doesn't make money.

 

I am not even sure they close the gap more than the smaller schools do.

 

The last data I saw on the program's financials they were a LONG ways off from bringing in more than they spent.

 

Let's think it through.  Outside of TV rights, ticket revenue is the leading line item for college sports revenue.

 

They have seven home dates but let's call it nine since they sell out BJC once a year and that is about three times the size of Rec Hall (though their costs are significantly higher for BJC).  Ticket prices about $15 and crowds of 6,000 per event (though I think a sell out is actually closer to 5,500).  That is only $810,000.  ($15 * 6,000 fans * 9 times)

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That math doesn't even cover what the coaches get and probably covers what Cael himself gets by not much.

 

College wrestling is going to be driven by donors for a long time. That's why the TEAM aspect of wrestling is so damn critical to the sport's well-being.

 

Except the data I saw said there weren't very significant donations being made to Penn State Wrestling.  I believe their donors are probably funding the NLWC which allows them to have world class athletes in the program.  However, it also increases their expenses (which don't show up in the University reports).

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Except the data I saw said there weren't very significant donations being made to Penn State Wrestling.  I believe their donors are probably funding the NLWC which allows them to have world class athletes in the program.  However, it also increases their expenses (which don't show up in the University reports).

 

Where is that data from and how reliable? I have heard otherwise from a source I trust.

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Except the data I saw said there weren't very significant donations being made to Penn State Wrestling.  I believe their donors are probably funding the NLWC which allows them to have world class athletes in the program.  However, it also increases their expenses (which don't show up in the University reports).

 

One donor made the major donation to rebuild the wrestling room a few years ago and then the same person was the major partner in funding Cael.

Several million as I understand it. It's possible the donations were not made specifically to wrestling as much to the general athletic fund for wrestling and as such might not end up in the data you see.

Also, I believe these were made as the all time least anonymous gifts which might also affect what you see.

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One donor made the major donation to rebuild the wrestling room a few years ago and then the same person was the major partner in funding Cael.

Several million as I understand it. It's possible the donations were not made specifically to wrestling as much to the general athletic fund for wrestling and as such might not end up in the data you see.

Also, I believe these were made as the all time least anonymous gifts which might also affect what you see.

 

Gifts for capital improvements likely wouldn't fall under wrestling donations but at the same time the cost of operating the wrestling complex does not fall under wrestling expenses.

 

I am not saying that wrestling doesn't have donors that make significant contributions.  My point is merely that those gifts are largely directed to ancillary parts of the program than the ongoing annual operating expenses.

 

This is, however, not exactly unique.

 

This is kind of the conversation:

 

Donor1: I want to help the program, can I give some money so you have more scholarship money?

Wrestling: We are fully funded.  The school gives us all the money we need to cover scholarships.

Donor1:  Oh, then do you need money for your recruiting budget?

Wrestling: No, we have no problem funding our recruiting.  We can get to all the events and reach all the kids we want to reach.

Donor1: Well, since the school is taking care of you so much.  Why don't we go big and do something that makes us stand out even more.  Let's do something unique.

Wrestling: What do you have in mind?

Donor1: How about we build an impressive wrestling Complex that will put everyone else's wrestling room to shame?  We can call it something like Freidman, Lorenzo, Graham, or Caruso.

Wrestling: Sounds good.  If you want to fund it.  We would love to have an impressive facility.

Donor2: Why stop there?  Let's also fund a freestyle team so we can bring in additional athletes to train with the guys so they get more competition in practice, more diverse training partners, and additional coaching.

Wrestling: Hey, if you want to fund it!

 

 

This is why some programs can be blindsided by budget cuts.  As far as wrestling has been concerned they were putting money into the program but (when it comes to freestyle clubs, etc) the funding doesn't do much to alleviate the school's burden to fund the program and in some instances (like facilities) it can actually cost them more due to the ongoing maintenance. 

 

Wrestling is a little unique in this regard.  However, I do think Olympic wrestling in the United States benefits a lot due to people wanting to help college programs.

 

Of course, there are a lot of schools (majority in D1, in fact) where the school doesn't give them the maximum number of scholarships or maximum number of coaches, let alone having boosters fund all of the ancillary features.

Edited by Pinnum

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Except the data I saw said there weren't very significant donations being made to Penn State Wrestling.

Seeing your subsequent posts, I'm not concerned about what official label a donation gets. Who cares, really. My point is PSU would not be where it is today unless donors ponied up. Neither would many of the big-time programs. Wrestling is never going to get administrative support to the level required to field a consistent top program unless donors step in. They are the financial key to D1 success, in my view.

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Gifts for capital improvements likely wouldn't fall under wrestling donations but at the same time the cost of operating the wrestling complex does not fall under wrestling expenses.

 

I am not saying that wrestling doesn't have donors that make significant contributions. My point is merely that those gifts are largely directed to ancillary parts of the program than the ongoing annual operating expenses.

 

This is, however, not exactly unique.

 

This is kind of the conversation:

 

Donor1: I want to help the program, can I give some money so you have more scholarship money?

Wrestling: We are fully funded. The school gives us all the money we need to cover scholarships.

Don't forget that donors can provide funds to endow the scholarships, which frees the school of the burden to cover 9.9.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Don't forget that donors can provide funds to endow the scholarships, which frees the school of the burden to cover 9.9.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes, they can.  And at some schools, I believe donors have provided a lot of support for scholarship funds so they have reduced the burden on the school.

 

 Penn State's endowment for wrestling does give the program about $200k a year, which isn't an insignificant amount, by any means.  But they are not self funding. 

 

Franklin & Marshall, for instance, has a much higher percentage of their budget coming from the endowment fund and their wrestling endowment rivals Penn State's in annual payout.

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Flo Radio show mentioned Joe Heskett interviewed. Kind of random, if you ask me.

 

Not really, if you consider the Heather Lyke's former ties to tOSU - which was supposedly the reason why she thought she could lure Lou Rosselli away from Oklahoma.  Heskett was at tOSU during her tenure there.

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Yes, they can.  And at some schools, I believe donors have provided a lot of support for scholarship funds so they have reduced the burden on the school.

 

 Penn State's endowment for wrestling does give the program about $200k a year, which isn't an insignificant amount, by any means.  But they are not self funding. 

 

Franklin & Marshall, for instance, has a much higher percentage of their budget coming from the endowment fund and their wrestling endowment rivals Penn State's in annual payout.

 

We are saying the same thing.  My response was a rebuttal to the "Donor1 - Wrestling" scenario in the quoted passage, which suggests that the institution won't take donor $$$ to cover scholarships because the university already pays for it. 

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We are saying the same thing.  My response was a rebuttal to the "Donor1 - Wrestling" scenario in the quoted passage, which suggests that the institution won't take donor $$$ to cover scholarships because the university already pays for it. 

 

I know.  I wasn't disputing what you were saying.  We're speaking the same language.

 

 

My point is more to think about places like Arizona State with a big donor that saw the program cut because of budget issues despite their contributions to better the program or Maryland where they recently cut a handful of sports.  People just take for granted the funding that comes from the athletic department so they look to augment the program by funding ancillary programs which actually does nothing for long time security (if the program is not packing in the fans). 

 

I think of it like a teenager.  They could pay for their cell phone with their part time job, or they could take for granted their cell phone because their parents have always paid for it and use their part time job to fund some summer concerts.  Overall they are living beyond their means but as long as their parents are happy to pick up the tab, there is no issue.  It is only when the parents no longer want to pick up the tab is it a problem.  And that is when people start whining and talking about how hard they worked at their part time job. 

 

The reality is that a wrestling complex makes for a perfect classroom, dance studio, weight room, athletic training room, or offices.  It can very quickly be repurposed and for little money.  Freestyle clubs? The money flows out as quickly as it comes in.  Summer camps?  They do more to fund dorm rooms and to put some money into coach/athlete pockets than to support college programs.

 

A lot of what people think of as supporting a program doesn't actually ensure security or stability at schools.  The endowment is really the only way to do that and the second best way is to be there in the stands in person.  If there is a fan base, or the program doesn't take resources, they will be in a great position.

 

The numbers some people throw around for coaching salaries is encouraging and alarming at the same time.  It is great unless there is a market correction.  Since wrestling is being drastically subsidized and many of the beneficiaries want to stand in the way of marketing championship well packaged contests to fans in an effort to broaden the fan base, while claiming it is simply tradition that matters, there is a high amount of risk for any athletic department that subsidizes wrestling in the manner some people here are advocating for.

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I know Jody Strittmatter from Young Guns has stated in the past that he does not want to coach in college. But I wonder if he wouldn't be a great choice now that Santoro and Flynn have said no. Goodale was a HS coach before he took over Rutgers and he has done a great job at Rutgers despite what I consider a rough start. What Strittmatter has done at Young Guns is simply undeniably good coaching for any level.

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He's reiterated that he doesnt want the job - not sure if its because its Pitt, or if it's because he'd rather do what he's doing now (Coaching at UPJ and running Young Guns).  He has a young daughter, so maybe that's a part of it.

 

I know Jody Strittmatter from Young Guns has stated in the past that he does not want to coach in college. But I wonder if he wouldn't be a great choice now that Santoro and Flynn have said no. Goodale was a HS coach before he took over Rutgers and he has done a great job at Rutgers despite what I consider a rough start. What Strittmatter has done at Young Guns is simply undeniably good coaching for any level.

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All signs point to Strittmatter being a great youth coach and a poor college coach or at least recruiter.

 

He produces top high schoolers but he hasn't done much for UPJ in the way of building the program.

 

Probably knows his limits and doesn't want to take on the tough task of dealing with unrealistic expectations at Pitt.

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