Suriano OUT!!!

[MSU158 1,513]

I am certain that's a part of it.  And I am certain that was the right move by Cael.  It's not Cael's job to get the right wrestlers in, to properly seed the bracket, or to re-seed even now.  All of those things are failing to happen because of poor procedure from the NCAA.  I can't fault Cael for taking advantage of the current rules to salvage a small win out of a big team loss.  

Agreed.

[Housebuye 2,079]

1. Buffalo - 3 pts

 

Advancement + Fall

Interesting that if Suriano was against Jose Rodriguez, this could've decided the team race!

[Jasonmitchell32 241]

As of last week the goal was to wrestle with a brace and place 5th-8th. This would assure PSU a title.

"Assure" them the title?! That's a fact? It was determined? I think there is a team or 2 that believe alternative facts than your assured team title. Seriously......

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[teach 163]

I never thought I would see buffalo in the lead, and ahead of PSU, OSU, and Iowa!   now if they only had a pigtail! 

[IronChef 720]

Yeah, that 34th guy was likely Noah Baughman, who beat Terao and Rodriguez, and pinned Piccinnini.  I'm sure he doesn't feel cheated now.

 

Cael had until last Sunday to pull Suriano so that the brackets could have been redrawn.  The honorable thing would have been to pull him.  I wonder what miracle they were expecting between Sunday and today.  Really selfish on their part.

Again, nobody got cheated. Baughman had the same chance to get into this tournament as everyone else and failed to do so. Don't talk about the "honorable thing to do." If you think your guy has a chance to be able to compete, you don't pull him out of the tournament until you're 100% sure he can't. You're under no obligation to do so before the replacement deadline.

[conyewest 57]

Shouldn't the NCAA system be at fault for this? Why not have an alternate listed like Baughman?

[MSU158 1,513]

Again, nobody got cheated. Baughman had the same chance to get into this tournament as everyone else and failed to do so. Don't talk about the "honorable thing to do." If you think your guy has a chance to be able to compete, you don't pull him out of the tournament until you're 100% sure he can't. You're under no obligation to do so before the replacement deadline.

Obviously, if they still had hope that Suriano would wrestle, no one here can or should fault them for that.  However, are you then saying that what Michigan did with Murphy or even Jake Smith of West Virginia is not honorable or noteworthy?

[TBar1977 3,764]

MSU158, what was your opinion on Spencer Lee giving it a go at PIAA's? Should he have withdrawn? 

[bigmik 218]

Again, nobody got cheated. Baughman had the same chance to get into this tournament as everyone else and failed to do so. Don't talk about the "honorable thing to do." If you think your guy has a chance to be able to compete, you don't pull him out of the tournament until you're 100% sure he can't. You're under no obligation to do so before the replacement deadline.

You are correct. We desperately need to get emotionalism out of wrestling. Baughman didn't get cheated in any way shape or form.

[NJDan 573]

They should let Baughman of Cornell in. He should have been in anyway.

[PRyan2012 343]

Listen

 

False, both times you posted it.

Hey smart A. I am a PSU fan and they are most likely third with no points at 125. Why is that false? If all the seeds play out that would put them in 3rd would it not?

Edited March 15, 2017 by PRyan2012

[MSU158 1,513]

PSU is still the favorite without Suriano, but their margin is far smaller.  Nevills cannot lose to Casper, Cenzo can't lose to Lewis, etc. 

Not true.  If wrestled to seed without bonus:

 

PSU 113 with Suriano, 99.5 without.  OkState 102.

 

I know many like to account for the PSU bonus point history, but they are now very unlikely to get any from 125-141 and 197.  OkState has all 10 as top 9 seeds.  That gives them a pretty good chance to match the bonus total.

 

I definitely think they are almost evenly matched(and now Cael looks brilliant for pulling Hall out of RS).  Sadly, for Suriano, it should make for a very entertaining Team Race!

[Housebuye 2,079]

Listen

 

Hey smart A. I am a PSU fan and they are most likely third with no points at 125. Why is that false? If all the seeds play out that would put them in 3rd would it not?

Do you think Nolf and Retherford will score 20 points each?

 

Do you think Nolf is equal to Heil in terms of team points?

[Housebuye 2,079]

Not true. If wrestled to seed without bonus:

 

PSU 113 with Suriano, 99.5 without. OkState 102.

 

I know many like to account for the PSU bonus point history, but they are now very unlikely to get any from 125-141 and 197. OkState has all 10 as top 9 seeds. That gives them a pretty good chance to match the bonus total.

 

I definitely think they are almost evenly matched(and now Cael looks brilliant for pulling Hall out of RS). Sadly, for Suriano, it should make for a very entertaining Team Race!

Not accounting for team points means you aren't giving an accurate account.

 

Do you think Nolf will score the same amount of points as Heil? I'd bet Nolf outscores Heil by at least 5 team points, if not 10. Same for Retherford.

 

That alone more than accounts for the difference.

 

OSU and tOSU can win. With that said, I actually have OSU placing 3rd.

[MSU158 1,513]

MSU158, what was your opinion on Spencer Lee giving it a go at PIAA's? Should he have withdrawn? 

I don't believe the situations are remotely the same, but I will respond.

 

I am torn on this subject.  I know he wanted to join a very short list of 4x, undefeated PA State Champs.  I also know he was cleared by a top notch physician.  Still, he took a risk at further injury that may have cost him a free DI education along with whatever athletic accomplishments he would have attained.

 

With the clearance from a Physician, I am ok with his decision.  But, I wouldn't have recommended it.

[lu_alum 690]

1. Buffalo - 3 pts

 

Advancement + Fall

Technically, Forfeit + Advancement.

 

But we know what you mean.

 

Can't call it a Med Forfeit since he will not weigh in. Have to be in the tourney to take a Med.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boconnell 1,421]

Do you think Nolf and Retherford will score 20 points each?

 

Do you think Nolf is equal to Heil in terms of team points?

Do you think Picc, Rodgers, and Weigel (3 lowest OSU seeds) are equal to the 3 worst PSU weights (125-141)?

 

There are 10 weights.  The best way to do it is compare the 10.  

[PRyan2012 343]

If PSU puts up Bonus points at 149 and 157 and all the others wrestle to their seeds then yes they can make that up and still win. It is going to be razor close! But right now I am acting like we are in 3rd with no points at 125.

[MSU158 1,513]

Not accounting for team points means you aren't giving an accurate account.

 

Do you think Nolf will score the same amount of points as Heil? I'd bet Nolf outscores Heil by at least 5 team points, if not 10. Same for Retherford.

 

That alone more than accounts for the difference.

 

OSU and tOSU can win. With that said, I actually have OSU placing 3rd.

I DID account for them.  Did you not read my entire post.  I said that 10 Top 9 seeded guys should be able to match the bonus points of 7(really 6 because McCutcheon is very unlikely to bonus considering he has 3 bp wins all season).

[Housebuye 2,079]

I DID account for them.  Did you not read my entire post.  I said that 10 Top 9 seeded guys should be able to match the bonus points of 7(really 6 because McCutcheon is very unlikely to bonus considering he has 3 bp wins all season).

 

I did. I meant the point totals you were using at the top of the post. I do not agree that OSUs team will have as many bonus points as either tOSU or PSU. 

 

I do hear what you are saying. Suriano being out makes it more difficult for PSU to win. 

[ionel 1,245]

Ok, we are on page 4, do any have real factual information, or is someone just messing with everyone cause they've got nothing better to do while waiting for the airliner to be dug out of 5 feet of snow?

[PRyan2012 343]

House,

 

You are probably right. I just like to look at it from a stats/seeding perspective. I never want to assume 149 and 157 will give us bonus points all the way through. But deep down I know that could easily happen. If that happens from what I am looking at and say Nickal gets 3rd PSU still could win. I hate it for Suriano and as a PSU fan but this makes for a very exciting team race!

[Housebuye 2,079]

Do you think Picc, Rodgers, and Weigel (3 lowest OSU seeds) are equal to the 3 worst PSU weights (125-141)?

 

There are 10 weights.  The best way to do it is compare the 10.  

OK. Quick run down of the points that could occur (these aren't actually my picks, but close to)

 

PSU

125 - 0

133 - 0

141 - Maybe 2?

149- 28

157 - 28

165 - 15

174 - 12

184 - 20 (2nd + bonus)

197 - hard to tell...maybe 8?

285 - 16 (3rd/4th + bonus)

 

Total: 119-129

 

OSU

125 - 8

133 - 16

141 - 20

149 - 16

157 - 10 (not confident here, but could be far higher or far lower)

165 - 2

174 - 8

184 - 10

197 - 8

285 - 2

 

100 points

 

Maybe I am underestimating OSU. I watched most of their duals this season, and this is approximately where I see them ending up. I highly doubt both 197 and 285 AA. I think they are both borderline AAs. PSU doesn't have a lot of wiggle room, but OSU has a bunch of guys right on the cusp of AAing. If they all AA, they can win. If 2-3 don't, they lose. 

[Housebuye 2,079]

House,

 

You are probably right. I just like to look at it from a stats/seeding perspective. I never want to assume 149 and 157 will give us bonus points all the way through. But deep down I know that could easily happen. If that happens from what I am looking at and say Nickal gets 3rd PSU still could win. I hate it for Suriano and as a PSU fan but this makes for a very exciting team race!

PSU isn't even my #1 school! But I do love watching them and have a tremendous amount of respect for Cael and the team. 

 

If they were my team, I'd probably be a little more conservative, just like you. You never want to go in overconfident. 

 

Cannot wait for tomorrow. Wish I didn't have to work, but I should be able to catch most of it. 

[PRyan2012 343]

Nice quick run down. It simply is going to come down to bonus points at 149 and 157. I simply can not count that as a given.