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Jim Zalesky vs Tom Brands

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Good point about Gable's recruiting.  I can't find it now, but I recall a story about Gable turning down a 4x state champ who was a super blue chip prospect.  Reason:  The kid had other interests outside of wrestling.

 

Dan definitely wanted kids who fit his system.  (BTW, I think Sanderson is the same regarding his program.)

I believe its in his ESPN documentary they talk about Gable turning down a 4 timer blue chip. If I remember right it was a kid from Oklahoma wanting to come to Iowa. Could be wrong about the state.

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Well I think that Iowa should stick with the Brands Bros. First they are totally committed to bringing Iowa back to greatness, and I'm not sure Iowa could get someone better at least at the moment. Additionally with the emergence of Cael and Tom Ryan, I think the landscape has changed and it's not in favor of Iowa. So the only thing the Brands Bros. can do is recruit the best they can possibly land. Develop the guys they have and get some big named talent in the HWC.

As far as Okla St. and Coach Smith being past his prime, I have to adamantly disagree. They had 8 All Americans this year and if Collica didn't have a bad tourney they may had 9. Also they have like 5 or 6 of those guys returning next year. So they will be right back in the thick of things.

Meanwhile Iowa only has Sorensen and Kemerer returning as AA's. Now Iowa may have some guys that could be impactful like Marinelli and Happel, and Stoll may be solid but injuries have kept him from much needed experience. Gunther, and Wilke are young, and hopefully for their sake as well as Iowa's they develop and get much better. I think both of them had at least 2 wins, at the NCAA's and I believe Wilke may have had three wins, which is pretty awesome, but because of the times and the situation they will have to become better. Now I know people will say that with Lee and Teasdale coming to Iowa that they will make an immediate impact, which they might. And if so, that would be huge for Iowa.

Ohio State has all their AA's returning, as well as the Boy King. So they are already a force to be reckoned with, even if they don't have anyone else emerge on their lineup as a superstar.

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Iowa's in a tough spot.  They're still one of the country's premier programs.  However, they're not bringing home NCAA titles like they did in the past. And, to your point, there's no ready answer to the question; "Who would they replace Tom and Terry with?" 

 

Just a wild theory, but here's a scenario that could play out over the next several years:

  1. Dresser does a comparable job at ISU as he did at Virginia Tech.
  2. Brands continues to be unable to bring an NCAA title back to Iowa City.
  3. ISU and Iowa becomes a great rivalry again.
  4. Iowa lures Dresser away from ISU to take over the helm at his alma mater.

Again, just a wild theory, but what if the above was Dresser's long term strategy when he left Virginia Tech for ISU?

Dresser is 54 and after getting Iowa St back on track I don't see him leaving at this stage of his life

 

a young guy will be next after Brands

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Dresser is 54 and after getting Iowa St back on track I don't see him leaving at this stage of his life

 

a young guy will be next after Brands

. Plus dresser pretty much said " I spend about 10 years at any given place". He will retire after ISU no matter what the results.

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The Brands increased the energy level and the vitality of the Iowa program. While they have not won team titles of late, they consistently put guys in the finals and have individual champions. My impression is that Tom continues to develop and mature as a coach - he appears to be very tuned in to the individual talents and mental/personality aspects of each of his wrestlers and gets the most out of them. Iowa would be foolish to change coaches.

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Hey guys, I have a crazy hypothetical. Cael is from Utah. What if Utah Valley had a crazy donor offer Cael a truckload of money to coach the program, with maximum scholarships, whatever coaching staff he wanted. You think the kids would still be clamoring to wrestle for him? Would he still get all the good Pennsylvania kids?

I doubt Sanderson would ever go back to the repressive society there after living away from the State even if he is still a member of the Cult that runs the State of Utah.

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Hey guys, I have a crazy hypothetical. Cael is from Utah. What if Utah Valley had a crazy donor offer Cael a truckload of money to coach the program, with maximum scholarships, whatever coaching staff he wanted. You think the kids would still be clamoring to wrestle for him? Would he still get all the good Pennsylvania kids?

If you're asking if they'd be as good as PSU, I don't see why not. They may not get "all" the good PA kids (and NJ, OH, etc), but they'd get some and it would also likely be easier to get kids from CA and the Plains.

Edited by 1032004

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If you're asking if they'd be as good as PSU, I don't see why not. They may not get "all" the good PA kids (and NJ, OH, etc), but they'd get some and it would also likely be easier to get kids from CA and the Plains.

I think only a few schools are capable of getting to the level of PSU, tOSU, OSU and Iowa.

 

Cael, Brands and Smith are capable of making any team a trophy contender but I don't think you can make any team a yearly title contender.

 

You might have a point with CA kids though.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

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Brands is one of the top coaches in the game. Zalesky is not. Whoever Gable picked when he left would have won those titles. Zalesky would not have won any of the 3 Brands did. In reality just look at what Zalesky has done since then. Not much shaking at Oregon State lately and he landed out west at a time when there was not a whole lot of competition. 

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So Zalesky was fired from Iowa in 2006 because he wasn't winning enough NCAA titles...

 

His run as coach looked like this...

 

1998 Champions

1999 Champions

2000 Champions

2001 Runner Up

2002 4th

2003 8th

2004 Runner Up

2005 7th

2006 4th

 

Toms Brands run as head coach looks like this so far...

 

07 8th

08 Champions

09 Champions

10 Champions

11 3rd

12 3rd

13 4th

14 4th

15 Runner Up

16 5th

 

The two sets of results dont seem all that different. Im curious to how Iowas Athletic Admin feel about the lack of championships at Iowa...

 

 

My original point of this topic was how does Iowa's admin feel about the lack of titles that are coming to Iowa... the reason Zalesky was fired.

 

Back to the OP, it might be good to look at individual accolades since Iowa claims to be more of an "individual first" program.

 

ZALESKY

# of seasons: 9

Individual champions: 10  (1.1 champions/season)

2x winners: 4*

3x winners: 1*

All-Americans: 45  (5.0 AAs/season)

Hodge winners: 1

 

* Mark Ironside and Jeff McGinness were 2x champions and Joe Williams was a 3x champion but they all won 1 title under Coach Zalesky

 

 

BRANDS

# of seasons: 11

Individual champions: 10  (0.9 champions/season)

2x winners: 3

3x winners: 0

All-Americans: 61  (5.5 champions/season)

Hodge winners: 1

 

 

It looks like Brands is doing a pretty good job given the state of the program when he took over, compared with Zalesky taking over the head coaching spot after Gable retired. However, it's not like Zalesky left the cupboard completely empty - didn't he recruit Mark Perry, who ended up winning two titles for Brands, and guys like Dennis, Tshirts, Luedke, Falck, Keddy, etc.?

 

Coach Zalesky also went through a 3 year individual title dry spell from 2004-06 and, going back to the team record thing, lost to rival Iowa State twice during that span. That might have been the last straw for Iowa's AD.  Brands OTOH was saved from going 3 straight years without an individual title this season thanks to Cory Clark, and is still undefeated against Iowa State.

 

By the numbers, it doesn't look like Coach Brands would be on the hot seat but we can see why the eyes of fans and alumni may start wandering...

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Back to the OP, it might be good to look at individual accolades since Iowa claims to be more of an "individual first" program.

 

ZALESKY

# of seasons: 9

Individual champions: 10  (1.1 champions/season)

2x winners: 4*

3x winners: 1*

All-Americans: 45  (5.0 AAs/season)

Hodge winners: 1

 

* Mark Ironside and Jeff McGinness were 2x champions and Joe Williams was a 3x champion but they all won 1 title under Coach Zalesky

 

 

BRANDS

# of seasons: 11

Individual champions: 10  (0.9 champions/season)

2x winners: 3

3x winners: 0

All-Americans: 61  (5.5 champions/season)

Hodge winners: 1

 

 

It looks like Brands is doing a pretty good job given the state of the program when he took over, compared with Zalesky taking over the head coaching spot after Gable retired. However, it's not like Zalesky left the cupboard completely empty - didn't he recruit Mark Perry, who ended up winning two titles for Brands, and guys like Dennis, Tshirts, Luedke, Falck, Keddy, etc.?

 

Coach Zalesky also went through a 3 year individual title dry spell from 2004-06 and, going back to the team record thing, lost to rival Iowa State twice during that span. That might have been the last straw for Iowa's AD.  Brands OTOH was saved from going 3 straight years without an individual title this season thanks to Cory Clark, and is still undefeated against Iowa State.

 

By the numbers, it doesn't look like Coach Brands would be on the hot seat but we can see why the eyes of fans and alumni may start wandering...

 

Excellent points, Pamela.

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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I believe its in his ESPN documentary they talk about Gable turning down a 4 timer blue chip. If I remember right it was a kid from Oklahoma wanting to come to Iowa. Could be wrong about the state.

 

Thanks tloger - don't think I could of found it without your tip.  And you remember right, the kid was from Tulsa. 

Wayne Wells relates the story beginning at 2:39 in the below-linked video clip:

 

https://youtu.be/zBryGcA9JNw?list=PLuYNr5rfIBiFXMJqbS5_s0pBsFQnVZ8qY

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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Its more then having the best kids from a region come to your school. Cael is a sensational coach and I am pretty sure he can make winners out of most kids that have the right mindset for his system. People always say Gable was plucking all these blue chip recruits from the East when in reality I can only count on my hand the National Champions he had that were actually East coast. The majority of his champions were all Midwestern kids from Iowa and surrounding states. Off the top of my head I can only think of the Banachs from New York, Penrith (NY), Campbell (NJ),Chip was Maryland,but there are few more I'm missing. But I do know McIlravy (SD), Randy Lewis (SD), Barry Davis (IA), Mike Ironside (IA), Royce Alger (IA), Tom Brands (IA), Terry Brands (IA), Jim Zalesky (IA), Joe Williams (IL), TJ Williams (IL), Doug Schwab (IA), Kevin Dresser (IA),Mark Reiland (IA),Jeff McGinness (IA), Daryl Weber (IA), Jesse Whitmer (IA), Pete Bush (IA), Troy Steiner (ND), Terry Steiner (ND), Joel Sharratt (MN), etc, I can keep going. Kistler was from Cali and Goldman was from CO. Fact is Gable molded the guys he felt would survive his system, not if they were a Blue Chip recruit or not.

Am I wrong, or did I read somewhere that Gable stopped recruiting PA after having to deal with Gumby's antics?

 

 

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It boils down to development and Cael and crew have proven that they can develop guys better than anyone else these days. The team has had 13 National Champs, 11 runner-ups and 43 total All-Americans including this year, since Cael took over in 2009-10. They've proven to be the team that gets the most out of their guys.

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Am I wrong, or did I read somewhere that Gable stopped recruiting PA after having to deal with Gumby's antics?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I think Gable enjoyed Brinzer. However, Gable never recruited him - Ray just showed up. Iowa has never had a national champ from PA and the only one AA from PA under Gable. Gable did recruit Nate Carr though - [Nate wanted to go to Iowa badly, but his mother had a bad premonition about Nate going there, so off to Iowa State he went]

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Would much rather have Jim Zalesky coaching than Brands.

Zalesky is a gentleman while Brands jumps around like an epileptic monkey on speed.

Zalesky isn't loud and crude.

 

I once saw Jim Zalesky challenge a fan to a fight in the middle of a dual at Hilton Coliseum.

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What about now, since Teasdale is going to PSU? That make their seats a little hotter?

 

I have to believe so.  Multiple recruits rescinding their verbal commitment and deciding to go elsewhere, including Teasdale has to count for something.    I believe the writing's on the wall.    Brands had their run, but excluding the double recruiting class, what have they done?

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