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WillieBoy

Coaches getting 'long in the tooth'?

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John Smith is the reason for this one. He is  the greatest wrestler the US has ever produced. Has been an excellent coach. The last few years his guys have underperformed at NCAA's. This year they almost tanked it the first day. Came out flat for the most part. Did not look as if they wanted it.

 

Does he still have it as a coach at the highest level?

 

For most schools what he has done these past few years would be great. At Oklahoma State it is just not good enough - similar to Tom Brands & Crew. In the hunt but when it really counts it appears as if the kids peaked too early, might have been distracted or whatever.

 

Yes, am comparing them to Penn State and tOSU. They still get a ton of All Americans but if the first day had been better these AA kids would be in finals over a number of weights.

 

So, changes in training? Mental preparation? Beat them with a diseased Prairie Dog?

 

What is the answer?

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What cael is doing is getting results with the #1 recruiting classes same with Ryan. Smith an Brands take A-to B Wrestlers an put them in the conversation with the A++ so to say that he is getting long in the tooth is absurd. 8AA's at any other school an he's COY but at Okie St he's slipping???? C'mon man Cael and Ryan should be commended more than ANYONE is ridiculed

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Next years rosters showing D1CW's top ten overall recruits:

 

PSU:............................ 1,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,10

Oh St.............................1,1,4,6,7,8,10

 

IA...................................2,2,8,9

AZ St..............................1,1,3

Okie St...........................1,7,9

NE...................................6,8,9

 

MI...................................2,2

NC St..............................4,7

 

Minny...............................0

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John Smith is the reason for this one. He is  the greatest wrestler the US has ever produced. Has been an excellent coach. The last few years his guys have underperformed at NCAA's. This year they almost tanked it the first day. Came out flat for the most part. Did not look as if they wanted it.

 

Does he still have it as a coach at the highest level?

 

For most schools what he has done these past few years would be great. At Oklahoma State it is just not good enough - similar to Tom Brands & Crew. In the hunt but when it really counts it appears as if the kids peaked too early, might have been distracted or whatever.

 

Yes, am comparing them to Penn State and tOSU. They still get a ton of All Americans but if the first day had been better these AA kids would be in finals over a number of weights.

 

So, changes in training? Mental preparation? Beat them with a diseased Prairie Dog?

 

What is the answer?

They've been huge overachievers at national the last few years before this one.  

 

The main drawback is recruiting right now.  Even in a bad tournament they got unheralded recruits Boyd and Weigel to top 6 finishes.  They made up a heavyweight on the fly and he had the 6 seed after a career as a 197 backup.  They coach the kids just fine.  But those kids don't usually make it to Saturday night.  They just don't have the same recruiting base as PSU and tOSU at the moment.  The main drawback right now is that all of the staff are OSU guys, so everyone has Oklahoma ties and nobody has ties anywhere else.  They picked Heil and Collica out of Ohio and they still recruit nationally, but Cael kind of shut them out of PA after a nice run with Coleman Scott and Oliver.  

 

If I was king of OSU I'd probably try to add an assistant with ties to the northeast.  But I don't know that you can get a big difference making assistant like that unless you're prepared to pass over Eric Guerro, and make the new guy heir apparent.  

 

So my guess is they keep aiming for titles and mostly falling short through the next few years.  And then when John moves on who knows.  It's very hard for an outsider to coach in Oklahoma.  They just don't like outsiders.  Maybe a guy with National ties who is connected to NE prep schools, a midwest Big 10 university, has recruited California, was raised in Oklahoma, and is connected to the school even though he didn't go there.  Maybe a guy like that could broaden the recruiting base while keeping the locals happy.

Edited by boconnell

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The main drawback right now is that all of the staff are OSU guys, so everyone has Oklahoma ties and nobody has ties anywhere else.  They picked Heil and Collica out of Ohio and they still recruit nationally, but Cael kind of shut them out of PA after a nice run with Coleman Scott and Oliver.  

 

If I was king of OSU I'd probably try to add an assistant with ties to the northeast.  But I don't know that you can get a big difference making assistant like that unless you're prepared to pass over Eric Guerro, and make the new guy heir apparent.  

 

I think you are generally right with your assessment, but Zach Esposito is from the dirty Jerz and went to Blair, so he's an East Coast guy. 

 

Also, don't forget that OSU landed one of PA's best ever, Chance Marsteller. He didn't work out, but that was not because they couldn't recruit PA.

 

I think it's a combination  of a few things:

1. The main universities at the top 2 wrestling states got bad-ass coaches: Tom Ryan and his assistant Cael (that's a joke from the media interview.... don't jump all over me). Competition stepped up. 

2. Oklahoma HS wrestling is down a bit.

3. Johh Smith isn't as hot on the recruiting trail as Cael, from what I've seen. I could be off on this, but in my admittedly limited experience at events, I see Cael or his staff around more than I see Smith (or Brands,  for that matter).

 

John Smith is such a good coach that he should stay in his seat as long as he wants and then they should name a building after him when he's done. The idea that he needs to go is ridiculous. Who the hell could do a better job?

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I think you are generally right with your assessment, but Zach Esposito is from the dirty Jerz and went to Blair, so he's an East Coast guy. 

 

Also, don't forget that OSU landed one of PA's best ever, Chance Marsteller. He didn't work out, but that was not because they couldn't recruit PA.

 

I think it's a combination  of a few things:

1. The main universities at the top 2 wrestling states got bad-ass coaches: Tom Ryan and his assistant Cael (that's a joke from the media interview.... don't jump all over me). Competition stepped up. 

2. Oklahoma HS wrestling is down a bit.

3. Johh Smith isn't as hot on the recruiting trail as Cael, from what I've seen. I could be off on this, but in my admittedly limited experience at events, I see Cael or his staff around more than I see Smith (or Brands,  for that matter).

 

John Smith is such a good coach that he should stay in his seat as long as he wants and then they should name a building after him when he's done. The idea that he needs to go is ridiculous. Who the hell could do a better job?

Smith is fantastic and will pick his exit at OSU.  He can stay 2 or 20 years and it's only up to him.  He is still doing a fantastic job.

 

But Oklahoma HS wrestling is probably as good as it's ever been.  They were way down 10 years ago, but have been back near the top the last few years.  2015 Oklahoma had 11 of the top 120 recruits (2nd only to PA).  They had 7 in 2014.  They had a total of 10 in 2010,11,12,13.  

 

The OSU team with 5 champs didn't do it with this many OSU kids (Espo was NJ, Pendleton was CA, Mocco was NJ via Iowa, Scott was PA, Frishkorn was VA, Nate Morgan was CA, Rusty Blackmon TN).  Only Rosholt, Hendricks, and Kevin Ward were from OK.  

 

The problem is not a dip in OK HS wrestling.  The problem is a dip in national recruiting.  They used to cherry pick just enough from PA and CA to go along with OK natives and midwest kids.  The CA pipeline has dried up and the PA one is hurting.

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The OSU team with 5 champs didn't do it with this many OSU kids (Espo was NJ, Pendleton was CA, Mocco was NJ via Iowa, Scott was PA, Frishkorn was VA, Nate Morgan was CA, Rusty Blackmon TN).  Only Rosholt, Hendricks, and Kevin Ward were from OK.  

 

 

Rosholt was from Idaho, Ward was also from Tennessee 

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Rosholt was from Idaho, Ward was also from Tennessee 

What do I know.  I interviewed Ward for a HS coaching job almost a decade back and just assumed he was an Oklahoma guy.  Rosholt I knew was from Idaho and somehow forgot because I believe his little brother did some time in Oklahoma for HS.

Edited by boconnell

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I wish John Smith would make David Taylor the highest paid assistant coach in the US.  David is the one that made the Nolf, Nickal, Cael style popular.  When John decides to hang it up, I'm ok with a non OSU guy getting the helm. 

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Next years rosters showing D1CW's top ten overall recruits:

 

PSU:............................ 1,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,10

Oh St.............................1,1,4,6,7,8,10

 

IA...................................2,2,8,9

AZ St..............................1,1,3

Okie St...........................1,7,9

NE...................................6,8,9

 

MI...................................2,2

NC St..............................4,7

 

Minny...............................0

 

Wow. Minnesota is screwed.

 

That shows why PSU is on top, and will be on top for a long time. There should be a space or two between PSU and OSU.

 

Wonder how PSU's 9.9 is split up?

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Wow. Minnesota is screwed.

 

That shows why PSU is on top, and will be on top for a long time. There should be a space or two between PSU and OSU.

 

Wonder how PSU's 9.9 is split up?

Pro tip for other coaches: Build the best program and the most talented kids will want to wrestle for you.

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I will sell him short for the next 2 seasons. I would redshirt Joe and shoot for 3 years from now with a Picc, Fix, Brock, Smith combo and you still have to contend with a Suriano, Joseph and Hall combo.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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John Smith is the reason for this one. He is  the greatest wrestler the US has ever produced. Has been an excellent coach. The last few years his guys have underperformed at NCAA's. This year they almost tanked it the first day. Came out flat for the most part. Did not look as if they wanted it.

 

Does he still have it as a coach at the highest level?

 

For most schools what he has done these past few years would be great. At Oklahoma State it is just not good enough - similar to Tom Brands & Crew. In the hunt but when it really counts it appears as if the kids peaked too early, might have been distracted or whatever.

 

Yes, am comparing them to Penn State and tOSU. They still get a ton of All Americans but if the first day had been better these AA kids would be in finals over a number of weights.

 

So, changes in training? Mental preparation? Beat them with a diseased Prairie Dog?

 

What is the answer?

His team produced 8 AAs and scored 103 points. (enough to win in some years)  That's not a bad performance.  PSU just had an awesome performance and left everyone in the dust.  John Smith is still a great coach and replacing him would be really difficult.  

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Next years rosters showing D1CW's top ten overall recruits:

 

PSU:............................ 1,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,10

Oh St.............................1,1,4,6,7,8,10

 

IA...................................2,2,8,9

AZ St..............................1,1,3

Okie St...........................1,7,9

NE...................................6,8,9

 

MI...................................2,2

NC St..............................4,7

 

Minny...............................0

Shouldn't they just hand out the team trophies the day Earl Smith publishes his rankings?

 

Asking for a friend in South Canada.

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Okie State's issue this season was the lack of strength in their conference.  They had a great Big 12 tourney but it did not prepare them in the least.  PSU, by comparison, ate a little humble pie at Big Tens and clearly that motivated them for NCAA's.  

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Okie State's issue this season was the lack of strength in their conference.  They had a great Big 12 tourney but it did not prepare them in the least.  PSU, by comparison, ate a little humble pie at Big Tens and clearly that motivated them for NCAA's.  

 

I don't think any amount of conference competition could've prepared them for what PSU unleashed. PSU was just a much stronger, more talented team. OSU will have a shot in 2 or 3 years, if they are smart with redshirts and the young talent they have.

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