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WillieBoy

Iows Style - and now Penn State Style?

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Anyone who would argue that the coach of the team that won 6 of the last 7 NCAA titles isn't a good developer of talent must then believe the other coaches stink on ice for not being able to defeat the guy who can't develop talent. Seems illogical. 

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Kyle Dake likely would have lost his freshman year, but Joseph wins by fall? Stop it. And let's not forget that Nolf wrestled as a red shirt freshman. In his red shirt year, he was beaten handily by James Green, don't forget that. Zain Retherford lost twice as a freshman at NCAAS. He didn't take 3rd, he took 5th.

I don't think that those guys beat 3 guys better than Reece Humphrey. Did any of those guys beat a defending Hodge winner multiple times while being undersized (If Hall was undersized, so was Dake as a senior). At the end of he day, Dake didn't underachieve where it counted most. Nickal did, Nolf did, and Retherford did twice. I have no reason to believe that Dake wouldn't have had a better chance of beating Stieber than Retherford, especially in light of Retherford's failures.

I'm not sure why you are telling me how those guys didn't disappoint you. That doesn't really matter, they disappointed themselves. Also,this started from me responding to someone who made the ridiculous claim that the Retherford and Nolf style epitomize folkstyle wrestling more than Hall's and Joseph's style. I'm not sure why you are trying to change this into something else. And the fact that you are trying to turn this into a "Nolf and Retherford aren't necessarily lesser folkstyle wrestlers" than Dake is downright laughable. Of course they are.

Whatever BigMik says is the final word. He is the arbiter of the truth.

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None of those guys ever disappointed me, and they will all leave college wrestling having scored more team points than Kyle Dake. Who cares about that? I care. This is why Penn State keeps attracting the next big recruit. They like the excitement in this program. You may have heard something regarding all the "FUN" they are having.

 

You can use Dake's 4 titles as a stand alone metric all you want. By all means forget everything else that is going on and focus solely on that. I stand by what I said regarding opposition too. Dake didn't win 4 in a vacuum. Had he wrestled someone the caliber of Stieber or I Mar as a freshman he'd have likely not won. He got a fortunate draw and then landed Montell Marion in the final. Give Retherford or Nolf a guy like that and maybe they end up as 4 timers too.

 

Freshmen Hall and Vincenzo Joseph both beat 3 guys who are better than Montell Marion this past post season.

Nickal drops out of the conversation when it's convenient

 

 

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I am a relatively new wrestling fan.  I never wrestled (hockey guy). I am a true novice.  I can admit that Taylor and Ruth brought from a casual observer to a fan.

 

Watching collar ties pushing around the circle is not interesting to me.  I do see how guys use it to improve their position.  I hate funk as well.  Watching guys get in deep against Delgado and him going over the back and either scrambling for points or a stalemate was not interesting either.

 

As an outsider, I will say that watching guys wrestle free and loose is much more appealing to me as a non-traditionalist.

 

I am not sure what Iowa or Penn State style is but anything that promotes offense is ok by me.

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Conaway won the New Oxford tournament a little less than 2 months before he won his state title. Runner up? Austin Miller. 3rd place? Zain Retherford (just beat Darian Cruz weeks before and beat #1 in the nation Nick Roberts at states). 4th place? Dippery.

 

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That sounds pretty tough to me!

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Penn State style is get the best kids in the country and throw them out there.

 

 Not one of there wrestlers has the same style. Retherford beat you to death / Nolf slicks and funk you to death / Nickal Throws you / Hall position wrestle

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Are you insinuating that because Nickal lost in the NCAA finals during his redshirt freshman season that Cael and Co are not a good coaching staff?

I'm insinuating that Nickal drops from the conversation when it's convenient for the argument. He had a favorable draw as well. True freshman Dake & redshirt freshman Nickal both earned their #1 seeds so it's assumed they each have the most favorable draw. Nickal lost to the #11 seed Myles Martin, Dake beat the #6 seed Montell Marion

 

 

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I'm insinuating that Nickal drops from the conversation when it's convenient for the argument. He had a favorable draw as well. True freshman Dake & redshirt freshman Nickal both earned their #1 seeds so it's assumed they each have the most favorable draw. Nickal lost to the #11 seed Myles Martin, Dake beat the #6 seed Montell Marion

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Not really sure what your point is... everyone seems to forget Dake losing in his conference finals sophomore year.

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Penn State style is get the best kids in the country and throw them out there.

 

 Not one of there wrestlers has the same style. Retherford beat you to death / Nolf slicks and funk you to death / Nickal Throws you / Hall position wrestle

I think that's what PSU's style is.. like Vince Lombardi.. let each individual maximize on their individual strengths instead of pushing everyone through a cookie cutter mold.

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Not really sure what your point is... everyone seems to forget Dake losing in his conference finals sophomore year.

My point is only that Dake won when it mattered, Nickal could be on his way to 4timer as well after dethroning Dean this year. In the big scheme my point is irrelevant because Dake wasn't near as entertaining or the point scorer as Caels guys are. Cael is a phenomenal recruiter, developer, & instills the point scoring mentality like no other. However, I do believe iron sharpens iron & other coaches mentioned could potentially get similar results with that much talent in the practice room

 

 

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Nickal drops out of the conversation when it's convenient

 

 

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Not at all. He never disappointed me either. Bo Nickal gives 100% effort 100% of the time on the wrestling mat and that is good enough for me. The guy lost a few times so far, but so what? I never thought he would be perfect to begin with, but he is still pretty damn awesome. Likeable too. 

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Dake continues to lose fantasy matchup...  With that said, I agree that PSU is getting the best talent but I think Cael and his staff pick the right kids and adjust their training to their styles.  I could be wrong, but it appears that way.  Remember, Joseph lost early because of attempting a few throws and ends up winning in the finals with a throw!  That tells me they worked with the kid on his strengths.

 

PS.  Not sure if it was true, but I heard that Cael tried to get Q. Wright to adjust his style and Q would not and eventually won a NC with his own stuff.  Maybe that's a lesson that Cael took to heart.

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Dake continues to lose fantasy matchup...  With that said, I agree that PSU is getting the best talent but I think Cael and his staff pick the right kids and adjust their training to their styles.  I could be wrong, but it appears that way.  Remember, Joseph lost early because of attempting a few throws and ends up winning in the finals with a throw!  That tells me they worked with the kid on his strengths.

 

PS.  Not sure if it was true, but I heard that Cael tried to get Q. Wright to adjust his style and Q would not and eventually won a NC with his own stuff.  Maybe that's a lesson that Cael took to heart.

Wrong.  Q worked hard in the room, and learned what Cael and the staff taught him.  This is when the light came on and Q became a different wrestler.  

 

Oh, and this is the Iowa style.  This is how they used to wrestle, and after you watch this, you will understand why their style is so outdated, and why Iowa is finally accepting the modern sport, the way Cael has revolutionized the sport, into their vernacular.

 

Alger took 2 shots in the match.  

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Mind you, I LIKED the way Iowa used to wrestle, but this is dead and gone now as a style, and will not return, due to the way the modern sport has evolved.  I respect Iowa, and I give Tom and Terry full credit, for finally attempting to change with the times, to bring Iowa back.  It's already helped them, in that they took the podium this year with 4th, one better than the 5th they took last year.  And I LOVED the Brands/Clark throw, as it was the Iowa version of FUN, and FUN is good because the sport SHOULD BE FUN.

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And Cenzo won because he got smarter.  Notice how he DID NOT attempt any throws against Subjeck in the first round?  That's because he got more experience, and learned how to wrestle certain opponents.  Cenzo did not beat Imar with a throw, Cenzo beat Imar straight up, he was ahead in that match 7-5 with riding time counted, Imar wanted to get into it, so Cenzo obliged him.  Cenzo learned that against a guy like Subjeck, just play is safe and win.  4 times in that match with Subjeck, Cenzo shot, got in, Subjeck countered and tried to throw him, and Cenzo pulled out.  He scored on his two clean shots, and that was that.  

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