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Perry

Nolf vs. Pico

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We've seen Pico dismantle Zain something like 6 times now - how does Nolf's tank hold up against Pico's? Nolf seemed to tire out against iMar somewhat so I'm guessing Pico wears him into the ground in less than 6 minutes. Of course this match would be in free style ^^

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I have no idea, but watching Zain crush souls and then watching Pico handle him with ease begs the question, how badly would Pico dominate in college? I can't blame him for the path he chose, since he was a hair away from making the Olympic team, but that kid is made for a grinding style like folkstyle.

 

I do think Zain has improved a lot since they last met up, but the gap was quite large when they did. I'd love to see a rematch if Pico even comes back to wrestling as he said he would after he starts fighting.

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Probably so, but only because Pico hasn't wrestled Folk in years. Zain is a true talent in our sport, but Pico is just better. More physically gifted and a better technician than Zain in every match they've had to date. He has not wrestled Nolf however who relies on great conditioning and pace to dominate (backed by great neutral offense). I think this plays into Pico's arsenal and Nolf breaks under Pico's heavy hands. Just my 2 cents, though.

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My comment was more directed to wrestlingnerd's comment about Pico dominating in college. Freestyle, yes, Nolf is a relative novice and I think Pico wins for sure. Zain has been closing the gap but he will still have his hands full with him in freestyle. 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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My comment was more directed to wrestlingnerd's comment about Pico dominating in college. Freestyle, yes, Nolf is a relative novice and I think Pico win for sure. Zain has been closing the gap but he will still have his hands full with him in freestyle. 

Because everything Pico does translates directly to folkstyle, similar to how Kyle Snyder can light up the scoreboard without any mat wreslting, and his superiority in neutral is so substantial that he'd make mat wrestling irrelevant. Obviously, Pico is not Snyder, but for the purposes of his competition, he might as well be. Did you not see what he did to Zain last time from the feet? Every single TD he scored would've scored in folkstyle.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Because everything Pico does translates directly to folkstyle, similar to how Kyle Snyder can light up the scoreboard without any mat wreslting, and his superiority in neutral is so substantial that he'd make mat wrestling irrelevant. Obviously, Pico is not Snyder, but for the purposes of his competition, he might as well be. Did you not see what he did to Zain last time from the feet? Every single point he scored would've scored in folkstyle.

 

You can't look at freestyle results only and declare them unbeatable in folk, it simply doesn't work that way. Look at Snyder, he lost to Burak, McIntosh, and Gadsen in folk and then went on to win a world championship.

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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You can't look at freestyle results only and declare them unbeatable in folk, it simply doesn't work that way. Look at Snyder, he lost to McIntosh, Burak and Gadsen in folk and then went on to win a world championship.

As a true freshman, then he made a big leap. After your freshman year is when you usually make the biggest strides in skill. At that age (19) you can make big strides in a short amount of time.

 

The wrestler Snyder became over the off-season was significantly better than the one he was during the season. Jumps like that aren't unheard of with a kid that talented at that young of an age.

Edited by bigmik

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You can't look at freestyle results only and declare them unbeatable in folk, it simply doesn't work that way. Look at Snyder, he lost to McIntosh, Burak and Gadsen in folk and then went on to win a world championship.

 

And then how did he do after acquiring the improvement he did to win worlds? I think he's done OK for himself.

 

I didn't start following wrestling yesterday. I get there is a style difference. But just like you can't extrapolate folkstyle results from freestyle success, you also can't assume that freestyle results are irrelevant to predicting foklstyle success. Neither statement is quite true. You have to look at the individual's style on a case by case basis.

 

I repeat: Pico would be an absolute monster in folkstyle. His technique is directly transferable to folkstyle wihtout any moditication, he is extremely fit and strong and grinds down opponents, which is a skill that is even more valuable in foikstyle than freestyle (longer matches, more continuous action with fewer stops, etc.), and he was a very successful HS folkstyle wrestler who was nearly unrideable. There is enough evidence if you watch him closely to suggest he would crush in folkstyle.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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As a true freshman, then he made a big leap. After your freshman year is when you usually make the biggest strides in skill. At that age (19) you can make big strides in a short amount of time.

 

The wrestler Snyder became over the off-season was significantly better than the one he was during the season. Jumps like that aren't unheard of with a kid that talented at that young of an age.

There is truth in that. Ironically, I used that same argument when people were saying Gadson could beat Snyder in Freestyle. I said no way and that was one of the reasons why. I guess it's just annoying to me how people want to make Pico out as if he would of been the next 4 time undefeated champ without ever having to prove it. Between the rule differences and day before weigh-ins, it's just not as cut and dry as some people try to make it. 

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I don't know why it's assumed that Nolf would wear Pico down on the mat. I think it's quite the opposite. We've seen Martinez tire Nolf out in the Big 10 finals.

 

…and we just saw Joseph wear Imar out as well. Just goes to show how hard it is to predict results sometimes.  

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There is truth in that. Ironically, I used that same argument when people were saying Gadson could beat Snyder in Freestyle. I said no way and that was one of the reasons why. I guess it's just annoying to me how people want to make Pico out as if he would of been the next 4 time undefeated champ without ever having to prove it. Between the rule differences and day before weigh-ins, it's just not as cut and dry as some people try to make it.

 

Pico would not have been a lock for four, though I think he would have been a serious contender from day one. Pico was very tough, but his wrestling IQ wasn't too great. He could be outsmarted. I remember Stieber scoring big points on him by baiting him into a disadvantageous position, and he kept taking the bait over and over again. There are a few other instances where I've seen him make strange moves at inopportune times. Because of that, I think he was due for a heartbreaking loss or two if he wrestled folk.

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…and we just saw Joseph wear Imar out as well. Just goes to show how hard it is to predict results sometimes.

 

We've seen Martinez worn down before. The most drained I've seen Pico was in the Jr. World finals against Yazdanicharati.

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I was under the impression that Zain significantly closed the gap on Pico in FS last year.

It would have been nice to see them meet up last year. On that day, I could actually sees the match being close. Though I'mm not sure if that's what would happen on most days. This match will never happen again, Pico must be walking around at close to 180 lbs.

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Pico must be walking around at close to 180 lbs.

 

Not THAT big, but he's clearly not making 143 anytime soon. I think whatever UWW decides for new weight classes in 2018 will have a huge factor on whether Pico returns to wrestling or not. They're switching to same day weigh-ins, and I'm not sure Pico could've made 143 with same day weigh-ins and performed last year, let alone now with the added size.

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Not THAT big, but he's clearly not making 143 anytime soon. I think whatever UWW decides for new weight classes in 2018 will have a huge factor on whether Pico returns to wrestling or not. They're switching to same day weigh-ins, and I'm not sure Pico could've made 143 with same day weigh-ins and performed last year, let alone now with the added size.

Is Pico considering coming back? If so, he will be back up at least one weight class.

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Sounds like wrestling is up in the air at this point? One thing that frustrated me is that it always appeared like Pico's career was being rushed. I guess his ultimate goal was MMA but he is so young, he could of wrestled in college or at least stuck with international a while and still been plenty young enough to chase his MMA dreams. Seems like he barley got started on the senior circuit and now he may be gone for good. 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Is Pico considering coming back? If so, he will be back up at least one weight class.

 

He has stated on a couple of occasions that he didn't consider his wrestling career complete yet but would take some time off to focus on fighting in the very near term.

 

As I mentioned, he will have to go up. He can't make 143 same day and wrestle the way he does. He's way too big now, especially with same day weigh-ins, which are slated to start with the new weights in the 2017 season. I think what the new 2018 weights are (TBD after this year's worlds) will help him decide whether to come back or focus 100% on fighting. 

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And then how did he do after acquiring the improvement he did to win worlds? I think he's done OK for himself.

 

I didn't start following wrestling yesterday. I get there is a style difference. But just like you can't extrapolate folkstyle results from freestyle success, you also can't assume that freestyle results are irrelevant to predicting foklstyle success. Neither statement is quite true. You have to look at the individual's style on a case by case basis.

 

I repeat: Pico would be an absolute monster in folkstyle. His technique is directly transferable to folkstyle wihtout any moditication, he is extremely fit and strong and grinds down opponents, which is a skill that is even more valuable in foikstyle than freestyle (longer matches, more continuous action with fewer stops, etc.), and he was a very successful HS folkstyle wrestler who was nearly unrideable. There is enough evidence if you watch him closely to suggest he would crush in folkstyle.

 

I'll take your word on his strength/athleticism. True enough that not all FS guys are fish on the mat, but enough of them are that I think skeptics are quite just in their skepticism of Pico's success in college. We've all seen FS studs come in and fall flat on their faces. I think he'd do quite well for himself, mind you, but I think he'd take some losses getting used to Folk. But that's neither here nor there, he apparently has no interest in college.

 

I think the onus is on Pico to prove that he could win in folkstyle in college, and that it's a discredit to Zain, who actually has put in the effort, in saying that Pico would beat him in folk. Maybe you are right and he would...but, again, that remains to be seen. What HAS BEEN seen, however, is that Zain is a beast in Folk.

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