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New College Program Eliminated Due to Travel.


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#1 Pinnum

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 05:46 AM

I draw attention to this because I have heard many people not defend weak D1 programs with limited resources when they get eliminated.

 

What people don't realize is that the geographic wrestling ecosystem needs to be thriving in order for programs in the region to be able to remain.  When all your program's resources are going into travel costs you're not getting much benefit to the school or the athletes.

 

http://intermatwrest.../articles/18052

 

 


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#2 SetonHallPirate

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:32 AM

Pinnum, with all due respect to that INTERIM AD (and yes, I say interim for a reason, continued below), their excuses for cutting the program were utter hogwash. They made one trip to Pennsylvania (with seven wrestlers, for a Saturday open), and zero trips to Ohio, last season. The year before that, they made one trip to Pennsylvania (with five wrestlers), and one trip to Ohio (with ten wrestlers), although they also made a trip to Indiana (with nine wrestlers). The year before that, they made a trip to Indiana with nine wrestlers, and one to Pennsylvania (with an indeterminable number of wrestlers, because they wrestled a dual in there). Further, they could very easily have joined the ECAC Division II Wrestling conference, which was right in their geographic footprint, but chose not to.

 

Also, I'd take further issue with an interim AD dropping the sport. The interim's job, generally, is to keep the lights on in the athletic department and be a caretaker while a new AD is found. For that interim to take it upon themselves to drop a program, that had been in existence for merely seven years prior to arrival (with much of that being ineligible for the postseason in part by a change in affiliation from the NAIA to NCAA Division II) is, frankly, inexplicable.

 

I can only hope that the new permanent AD, when one is found, will reverse this decision.


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#3 gowrestle

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:07 AM

Pinnum, with all due respect to that INTERIM AD (and yes, I say interim for a reason, continued below), their excuses for cutting the program were utter hogwash. They made one trip to Pennsylvania (with seven wrestlers, for a Saturday open), and zero trips to Ohio, last season. The year before that, they made one trip to Pennsylvania (with five wrestlers), and one trip to Ohio (with ten wrestlers), although they also made a trip to Indiana (with nine wrestlers). The year before that, they made a trip to Indiana with nine wrestlers, and one to Pennsylvania (with an indeterminable number of wrestlers, because they wrestled a dual in there). Further, they could very easily have joined the ECAC Division II Wrestling conference, which was right in their geographic footprint, but chose not to.

Also, I'd take further issue with an interim AD dropping the sport. The interim's job, generally, is to keep the lights on in the athletic department and be a caretaker while a new AD is found. For that interim to take it upon themselves to drop a program, that had been in existence for merely seven years prior to arrival (with much of that being ineligible for the postseason in part by a change in affiliation from the NAIA to NCAA Division II) is, frankly, inexplicable.

I can only hope that the new permanent AD, when one is found, will reverse this decision.

Good points Pirate regarding the Interim AD. The decision to drop wrestling definitely involved multiple high level administrators including the president. Very likely the college is dealing with financial challenges and dropping wrestling was one way of managing shrinking resources. The decision to do it now kept a controversial decision off the plate of a new athletic director.


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Edited by gowrestle, 01 April 2017 - 08:24 AM.


#4 Pinnum

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:10 AM

Good points Pirate regarding the Interim AD. The decision to drop wrestling definitely involved multiple high level administrators including the president. Very likely the college is dealing with financial challenges and dropping wrestling was one way of managing shrinking resources. The decision to do it now was keeps a controversial decision off the plate of a new athletic director.

 

Schools have been using wrestling (and other sports) to drive enrollment.

 

The problem benefits to enrollment can be quickly lost when scholarships, coaches salaries, and in this case, extensive travel come into play.  


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#5 gowrestle

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:22 AM

Schools have been using wrestling (and other sports) to drive enrollment.

The problem benefits to enrollment can be quickly lost when scholarships, coaches salaries, and in this case, extensive travel come into play.


I wonder if enough wrestlers enrolled and paid enough tuition to cover the program costs. Probably not...

#6 Pinnum

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:23 AM

Pinnum, with all due respect to that INTERIM AD (and yes, I say interim for a reason, continued below), their excuses for cutting the program were utter hogwash. They made one trip to Pennsylvania (with seven wrestlers, for a Saturday open), and zero trips to Ohio, last season. The year before that, they made one trip to Pennsylvania (with five wrestlers), and one trip to Ohio (with ten wrestlers), although they also made a trip to Indiana (with nine wrestlers). The year before that, they made a trip to Indiana with nine wrestlers, and one to Pennsylvania (with an indeterminable number of wrestlers, because they wrestled a dual in there). Further, they could very easily have joined the ECAC Division II Wrestling conference, which was right in their geographic footprint, but chose not to.

 

Also, I'd take further issue with an interim AD dropping the sport. The interim's job, generally, is to keep the lights on in the athletic department and be a caretaker while a new AD is found. For that interim to take it upon themselves to drop a program, that had been in existence for merely seven years prior to arrival (with much of that being ineligible for the postseason in part by a change in affiliation from the NAIA to NCAA Division II) is, frankly, inexplicable.

 

I can only hope that the new permanent AD, when one is found, will reverse this decision.

 

They also went to Wisconsin, Missouri, and Indiana last year, in addition to Pennsylvania.  

 

The ECAC D2 schedule is for duals.  This is something the school shied away from (only wrestling three duals last year) and I believe it was because they wanted to serve a large group of students rather than the starters.  

 

The program has not been retaining athletes with a freshmen heavy lineup.  When you don't have athletes that are competitive, you'll see higher attrition rates, but if you don't provide the oportutnity to get into better events (and travel) you won't be able to attract some better athletes.  

 

The Southern Scuffle at Chattanooga is actually the closest event to them, but they are not permitted to enter, since unlike the Midlands, it is closed to them. 


Edited by Pinnum, 01 April 2017 - 08:24 AM.

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#7 SetonHallPirate

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:50 AM

For what it's worth, Shorter only had 18 wrestlers who actually went through the certification process this season, and again, were certainly not bringing most of their athletes to events (even opens).


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#8 Jasonmitchell32

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 11:56 AM

I will just say this - I coach youth kids and we travel quite a bit. Yes - the costs can add up, but if the above trips are accurate, then its not that much more than we've done.  Renting a few vans (which we've done), diving hundreds of miles (which we've done), staying in reasonably cheap hotels (again, we've done, but I prefer at least a Hampton Inn level ;) - so not that much diff) and eating 3 squares a day.  You're talking about a few thousand a trip.  Im with Pirate - the "reasons" given by the AD are bogus.  Even if you're right, Pinnum - thats 4 trips.  Thats not that burdensome.  I wrestled at Pitt and when we went on trips, there were a lot of parents that kicked in and bought meals, contributed to upgraded vans/hotels, etc.

 

And, again, like Pirate says - they have a conference option that they choose not to be a part of.

 

Like most of these situations, I think that these schools are making excuses for dropping the program and its mostly because its just easier to do that than to put some work in and figure out how to make it work.

 

Im a bit bitter about this topic, sorry.  Back in the early 90's when I was in college, there were a lot of programs dropping (Clemson, for example) b/c of the way Title 9 was being applied.  It was (and is?) being used as an excuse.  I believe in the basis for the reasons for Title 9, but the application of the rule has crushed men's wrestling, gymnastics, tennis, soccer, dodgeball, etc.



#9 JasonBryant

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 06:44 PM

School is basically broke. Heard even their porto-potties got repossessed. Probably the first of many cuts that are going to happen at the school. Excuse is horrible because the school is in SERIOUS financial trouble.
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#10 SetonHallPirate

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:16 AM

School is basically broke. Heard even their porto-potties got repossessed. Probably the first of many cuts that are going to happen at the school. Excuse is horrible because the school is in SERIOUS financial trouble.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not.


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#11 JasonBryant

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 06:39 AM

I'm not making this up. 


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#12 Zebra

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:26 AM

I'm not making this up. 

Well technically "Trolling" doesn't have to be fiction, in fact often the best trolls use truth as a hammer. 



#13 MadMardigain

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 02:28 PM

Well technically "Trolling" doesn't have to be fiction, in fact often the best trolls use truth as a hammer.

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