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Angry_Fish

65KG US Open

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Why are we talking about Zain Rutherford?   Shouldn't we wait until he beats someone of note on the international mats?    This kid  has been losing to a high school kid, the past 4 yeaers.   Can we wait till this guy at least wins something before we anoint him the next Aaron Pico?   

ZZZZZ....ZR is the future(NCAA Titles, Hodge).  Your guy, still hasn't won a match that counts.  We're still waiting.  

Edited by RetiredPoster

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I'll amend,

 

In the last 2 years, Zain did not advance far enough in any tournament to face Pico.

 

Why are we talking about Zain?   

 

By the way if this went over anyone's head, Zain is absolutely fantastic.     A dynamic and dominating wrestler.       But don't tell that to retired poster, by his criteria, Zain is unworthy to be discussed.   

Zain is the future.   He has won meaningful matches and will continue to improve.  You"ll see, Chief.

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Zain is the future.   He has won meaningful matches and will continue to improve.  You"ll see, Chief.

No question.    He's probably the 3rd best wrestler in college this past season.  He is absolutely the  goods.   I'm just busting balls for your inability to recognize Pico's level while still in HS and his numerous wins over Retherford.   It's no slight to Zain, he is fabulous.    The slight is all at you.    

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Zain is the future. He has won meaningful matches and will continue to improve. You"ll see, Chief.

Pico, who has a win over a senior level world champ, gets to the finals of the OTT, losing by the closest of margins, and he has no meaningful matches. Meanwhile, Zain, who has lost to Pico every time they've wrestled, badly, and has even fewer significant wins than Pico, well, he is the future. If Zain is the future and Pico has beaten him like a drum half a dozen times or so, it only makes sense that Pico has at least half a dozen or so significant wins. I mean, beating the future is a pretty big deal, especially if you do it so easily and often.

 

Since Pico is in MMA now and unlikely to come back to wrestling, especially with his coach living in NYC now, I do think Zain is the hot young gun at the weight too. I just love the consistency in your thinking.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I need to adjust for the new rules here.   

 

So never having won a meaningful match means we cannot talk about the individual, unless he's the future.   With Zain being the future, we can go ahead and discuss him, he needs not to have ever won that meaningful bout.    Understood.

 

 

What's baffling here is retired poster was unable to ever see Pico's talent, while nearly the entire forum saw it way back when he was 16 or so.   But yet RP is able to see the future when it comes to Zain.     You'd think Zain had numerous non meaningful wins over Pico at least.       

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I need to adjust for the new rules here.   

 

So never having won a meaningful match means we cannot talk about the individual, unless he's the future.   With Zain being the future, we can go ahead and discuss him, he needs not to have ever won that meaningful bout.    Understood.

 

 

What's baffling here is retired poster was unable to ever see Pico's talent, while nearly the entire forum saw it way back when he was 16 or so.   But yet RP is able to see the future when it comes to Zain.     You'd think Zain had numerous non meaningful wins over Pico at least.       

Unable to see his talent?  I have never questioned his talent.   Again, this was always directed at you guys who "Crowned him King", before winning a Meaningful title on the Senior Circuit and the total lack of respect for all the other guys busting their tails.  He won a Cadet World title(very good) and numerous 2nds.  Yes?  If he won a Junior World title, won the US Open, or the Olympic Trials, I would have to eat my words, but he didn't, and he won't ...Let's see how he does in MMA.  I wish him well and much success. 

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I need to adjust for the new rules here.   

 

So never having won a meaningful match means we cannot talk about the individual, unless he's the future.   With Zain being the future, we can go ahead and discuss him, he needs not to have ever won that meaningful bout.    Understood.

 

 

What's baffling here is retired poster was unable to ever see Pico's talent, while nearly the entire forum saw it way back when he was 16 or so.   But yet RP is able to see the future when it comes to Zain.     You'd think Zain had numerous non meaningful wins over Pico at least.       

Here's a question for you.   Is it possible that Zain is reaching his peak and your guy peaked at 16, 17?   Let's look at a few names; Adam Mariano, Pat Lynch, Sean Hage, Laurence Jackson......All guys , as good, if not better than AP.

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Here's a question for you.   Is it possible that Zain is reaching his peak and your guy peaked at 16, 17?   Let's look at a few names; Adam Mariano, Pat Lynch, Sean Hage, Laurence Jackson......All guys , as good, if not better than AP.

 

 

It could very well be, but you didn't want us to discuss Pico when he was at a higher level than Zain is, yet you're all to happy to discuss Zain, since "he's the future".   The fact is it could turn out he's already  maxed out.   Shouldn't we wait for Zain to win a meaningful match before we discuss him?  That's the standard you set.      That's rhetorical, we already know you don't want to apply your standard to Zain.   

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Well my feeling is, I wish Pico was still here wrestling for us, but he's not. So it looks like he will not be part of USA Wrestling's future. We lost a superstar to MMA, and we have to just move on. Maybe Zain will make the World Team, maybe not, all we can do is watch and wait.

Edited by de4856

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He's cut, but he's small.  Great talent though.

 

Bigger issue is that I don't see him breaking that horrible habit of hands to face.  Check out some of last year's Olympic matches.  They have not patience for it.  US refs (rightfully) are trying to ref in the same fashion, not in folk-style fashion.  Would not be surprised if Frank or JK beat him.  By same token, the time will come when ZR owns this weight -- just not this year.  But I'm wrong a lot, so who knows.

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It could very well be, but you didn't want us to discuss Pico when he was at a higher level than Zain is, yet you're all to happy to discuss Zain, since "he's the future".   The fact is it could turn out he's already  maxed out.   Shouldn't we wait for Zain to win a meaningful match before we discuss him?  That's the standard you set.      That's rhetorical, we already know you don't want to apply your standard to Zain.

 

I will admit, a few years back, when people on here were claiming that Pico was going to "whip" Metcalf and I believe Oliver and others. That got me fired up. Zain is what, 21? Pico was 16. ZR will likely be a 3X NCAA champ. ..I still strongly believe that if Pico would have followed a similar path as Snyder, you guys would be able to rip me to shreds with "I told ya so". I wish him well in MMA.

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I will admit, a few years back, when people on here were claiming that Pico was going to "whip" Metcalf and I believe Oliver and others. That got me fired up. Zain is what, 21? Pico was 16. ZR will likely be a 3X NCAA champ. ..I still strongly believe that if Pico would have followed a similar path as Snyder, you guys would be able to rip me to shreds with "I told ya so". I wish him well in MMA.

 

 I can accept that.    Lets be clear, Pico more than backed up the hype.   An Olympic trials finals berth and tied 4-4 in the 3rd bout?   Wins over Oliver, Molinaro, Humphries, multiple NCAA champs and Hodge winners, all by age 18?     It gets no closer to that without being the Olympian.    And all those guys were in the bracket.   Pico flat out deserved the hype and he proved it.    Shame we lose him to MMA so early.      

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I can accept that. Lets be clear, Pico more than backed up the hype. An Olympic trials finals berth and tied 4-4 in the 3rd bout? Wins over Oliver, Molinaro, Humphries, multiple NCAA champs and Hodge winners, all by age 18? It gets no closer to that without being the Olympian. And all those guys were in the bracket. Pico flat out deserved the hype and he proved it. Shame we lose him to MMA so early.

Also beat Safaryan, a senior world champion, when he was 17 or 18.

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He's cut, but he's small.  Great talent though.

 

Bigger issue is that I don't see him breaking that horrible habit of hands to face.  Check out some of last year's Olympic matches.  They have not patience for it.  US refs (rightfully) are trying to ref in the same fashion, not in folk-style fashion.  Would not be surprised if Frank or JK beat him.  By same token, the time will come when ZR owns this weight -- just not this year.  But I'm wrong a lot, so who knows.

 

The hands is BS.  Very subjective--see JB/Dake.  This said, Zain looks like the future.  I don't think if you take away the hands he would be done; he will adjust like most good wrestlers would. 

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 I can accept that.    Lets be clear, Pico more than backed up the hype.   An Olympic trials finals berth and tied 4-4 in the 3rd bout?   Wins over Oliver, Molinaro, Humphries, multiple NCAA champs and Hodge winners, all by age 18?     It gets no closer to that without being the Olympian.    And all those guys were in the bracket.   Pico flat out deserved the hype and he proved it.    Shame we lose him to MMA so early.      

 

Isn't Pico like 20?  He did all this 2 years ago?

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Isn't Pico like 20?  He did all this 2 years ago?

If he's 20, it's possible he did it just over a year ago.  It wouldn't have to be a full  2 years to make the statement correct.  

 

That said, I do not know his birthday.   You can research it for accuracy if you wish, but either way it's within a few months if its off.  

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Zain is clearly the future of the weight class. Pico is in mma now. Stay healthy, Pico.

 

I would say likely, not clearly.  Injuries, body change, and weight class adjustments all could affect that outcome.  And the timetable of "future" is in question.  Does that mean June?  2018? 2020?   Next quad?  Who knows.  I know most thought that JO was the future of this weight class for a long time.  But injuries and Metcalf prevented him from winning the US Open (or trials) until now.  Who knows how long/short it will take Zain.

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