Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
WillieBoy

OT - What team sport can one man make the difference?

Recommended Posts

We have wrestling teams but wrestling really isn't a team sport. Not like football, baseball, etc. Those and others take the whole team to enter a competition. Wrestling teams can and do enter competition down one or more weights.

 

Given a team sport - a real team, not something like beach Volleyball with two athletes or 3 on 3 basketball - what sport will ONE athlete at a key position make the difference?

 

For my dollar it is not basketball. One great player and the rest good  -  you let the great one do OK and shut down the others and you still beat them. It isn't baseball, not even with a Sandy Koufax on the mound. He can throw nothing but No-Hitters but only starts every 4th or 5th fame. He can be perfect and you still don't win it all.

 

Football with any one player great, without the really good supporting cast it doesn't matter.

 

I believe it is Ice Hockey with the Key athlete being the Goaltender. Take away Ken Dryden and the Montreal Canadians don't have nearly as many Stanley Cup victories. If a Goalie gets hot they can easily shut down the other team and keep them from scoring. Your team ties or wins and the goalie keeps the other guys from beating you. One hot goalie and you never or seldom lose. Don't know any other team sport where one Athlete can make that much of a difference.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have wrestling teams but wrestling really isn't a team sport. Not like football, baseball, etc. Those and others take the whole team to enter a competition. Wrestling teams can and do enter competition down one or more weights.

 

Given a team sport - a real team, not something like beach Volleyball with two athletes or 3 on 3 basketball - what sport will ONE athlete at a key position make the difference?

 

For my dollar it is not basketball. One great player and the rest good  -  you let the great one do OK and shut down the others and you still beat them. It isn't baseball, not even with a Sandy Koufax on the mound. He can throw nothing but No-Hitters but only starts every 4th or 5th fame. He can be perfect and you still don't win it all.

 

Football with any one player great, without the really good supporting cast it doesn't matter.

 

I believe it is Ice Hockey with the Key athlete being the Goaltender. Take away Ken Dryden and the Montreal Canadians don't have nearly as many Stanley Cup victories. If a Goalie gets hot they can easily shut down the other team and keep them from scoring. Your team ties or wins and the goalie keeps the other guys from beating you. One hot goalie and you never or seldom lose. Don't know any other team sport where one Athlete can make that much of a difference.

 

I guess I see a big distinction between making a difference and winning it all. In basketball , pro or college one great player can make a huge difference. Will they win it all with only one great one ? Probably not but the one superstar can mean the difference between sub . 500 or plus .700

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have wrestling teams but wrestling really isn't a team sport. Not like football, baseball, etc. Those and others take the whole team to enter a competition. Wrestling teams can and do enter competition down one or more weights.

 

Given a team sport - a real team, not something like beach Volleyball with two athletes or 3 on 3 basketball - what sport will ONE athlete at a key position make the difference?

 

For my dollar it is not basketball. One great player and the rest good  -  you let the great one do OK and shut down the others and you still beat them. It isn't baseball, not even with a Sandy Koufax on the mound. He can throw nothing but No-Hitters but only starts every 4th or 5th fame. He can be perfect and you still don't win it all.

 

Football with any one player great, without the really good supporting cast it doesn't matter.

 

I believe it is Ice Hockey with the Key athlete being the Goaltender. Take away Ken Dryden and the Montreal Canadians don't have nearly as many Stanley Cup victories. If a Goalie gets hot they can easily shut down the other team and keep them from scoring. Your team ties or wins and the goalie keeps the other guys from beating you. One hot goalie and you never or seldom lose. Don't know any other team sport where one Athlete can make that much of a difference.

 

I agree with Hockey because of a hot goalie, but basketball in general because of just the five players who play both offense and defense.  A player can rebound it, dribble down the court, and create his own shot.  Really doesn't need a lot from his teammates.  Larry Bird's rookie season the Celtics went from 29 wins the year prior to 61 wins...a 32 game improvement.  This was before Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.  What if you took Westbrook off of Oklahoma City this year...do they even win 15 games?

 

I think QB in football has a great impact, but probably not like a great player in basketball.  Take Brady off of the Patriots and they will still win at least 10 with Garoppolo; they won 11 a few years back with Cassell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Baseball, a great pitcher can completely dominate a game.....see Bob Gibson

 

Yes, but just one game, or perhaps three in a seven game series.  If a pitcher goes every 5 games, then he doesn't make a difference in 80% of the games.  Well, he does because he could save a bullpen, etc...but still...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quarterback is not the answer. The best QB

In the world will not be successful with a bad OLine. Hockey & soccer goalies can at least single handedly tie a game at 0-0. If a pitcher could go 9 innings every game, that would be the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with your take on quarterbacks, @simple... I think a lot of QBs get credit for being "game changers" because of their play calling, decision making and leadership but there's not much they can do without OLine protection. QBs also don't really contribute anything on defense. Like maybe if you have a high scoring quarterback it could statistically put the defense in decent field position, but if the D also gets rung up on every possession it makes the QB's job so much tougher.

 

I understand the points about standout hockey or soccer players making a huge difference but it seems difficult because of the # of players on the field and the wide open playing area - especially for soccer. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo, supposedly the best current player in the world - it took him like 13 years to win the Euro cup for the Portugal national team and he still hasn't come close to bringing them a World Cup.

 

On the other hand, a dominant all-around player in basketball can make a huge impact with mediocre teammates - not just in going iso and putting up a ton of points, but in defending, rebounding, working off of & through screens, distributing when other teams double or triple-up and being the floor general. I think the biggest challenge is simply being "dominant" since the sport is super stacked with talent & athleticism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with your take on quarterbacks, @simple... I think a lot of QBs get credit for being "game changers" because of their play calling, decision making and leadership but there's not much they can do without OLine protection. QBs also don't really contribute anything on defense. Like maybe if you have a high scoring quarterback it could statistically put the defense in decent field position, but if the D also gets rung up on every possession it makes the QB's job so much tougher.

 

I understand the points about standout hockey or soccer players making a huge difference but it seems difficult because of the # of players on the field and the wide open playing area - especially for soccer. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo, supposedly the best current player in the world - it took him like 13 years to win the Euro cup for the Portugal national team and he still hasn't come close to bringing them a World Cup.

 

On the other hand, a dominant all-around player in basketball can make a huge impact with mediocre teammates - not just in going iso and putting up a ton of points, but in defending, rebounding, working off of & through screens, distributing when other teams double or triple-up and being the floor general. I think the biggest challenge is simply being "dominant" since the sport is super stacked with talent & athleticism.

 

In basketball - how did LaBron James team do with him being a star with an average supporting cast? He did not raise the level of play of his mates. Larry Bird somehow got his mates to believe and the team improved as a result. One great player helps but few with just one will win it all. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points a game for a whole season - but he was the whole show on his team.

 

Quarterback in Football? Dan Fouts would score 50 points a game with a high powered offense - and the Chargers still lost. He was entertaining but a decent defense and they may well have been unbeatable. See Steve Young at Tampa Bay compared to a Steve Young who marinated behind Joe Montana for the San Francisco 49er's. Supporting cast.

 

Ice Hockey and Soccer(have to add soccer here) a hot goalie and the other team is shut down. A single goal for your team can win most any game when the goalie is hot. We have seen it happen.

 

As for HS sports - a different deal than older athletes. Few teams have excellent players all the way around. One kid can make a major difference but give a few years it will even out for most of them.

 

Roller derby

Curling

Quidditch

Basketball

 

Only one of these is an actual sport and even it is a girl's sport that boys play because they are afraid of wrestling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with your take on quarterbacks, @simple... I think a lot of QBs get credit for being "game changers" because of their play calling, decision making and leadership but there's not much they can do without OLine protection. QBs also don't really contribute anything on defense. Like maybe if you have a high scoring quarterback it could statistically put the defense in decent field position, but if the D also gets rung up on every possession it makes the QB's job so much tougher.

I understand the points about standout hockey or soccer players making a huge difference but it seems difficult because of the # of players on the field and the wide open playing area - especially for soccer. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo, supposedly the best current player in the world - it took him like 13 years to win the Euro cup for the Portugal national team and he still hasn't come close to bringing them a World Cup.

On the other hand, a dominant all-around player in basketball can make a huge impact with mediocre teammates - not just in going iso and putting up a ton of points, but in defending, rebounding, working off of & through screens, distributing when other teams double or triple-up and being the floor general. I think the biggest challenge is simply being "dominant" since the sport is super stacked with talent & athleticism.

Christiano Ronaldo is a bad example just because of the position he plays. Like previously mentioned, a goalie would better serve the purpose of being a game changer and there are many examples of that in soccer. The last world cup the Costa Rican team made a deep run due to the very strong play of their keeper. Also in soccer a top notch midfielder could also serve the purpose of a game changer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In basketball - how did LaBron James team do with him being a star with an average supporting cast? He did not raise the level of play of his mates. Larry Bird somehow got his mates to believe and the team improved as a result. One great player helps but few with just one will win it all. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points a game for a whole season - but he was the whole show on his team.

 

Quarterback in Football? Dan Fouts would score 50 points a game with a high powered offense - and the Chargers still lost. He was entertaining but a decent defense and they may well have been unbeatable. See Steve Young at Tampa Bay compared to a Steve Young who marinated behind Joe Montana for the San Francisco 49er's. Supporting cast.

 

Ice Hockey and Soccer(have to add soccer here) a hot goalie and the other team is shut down. A single goal for your team can win most any game when the goalie is hot. We have seen it happen.

 

As for HS sports - a different deal than older athletes. Few teams have excellent players all the way around. One kid can make a major difference but give a few years it will even out for most of them.

 

Roller derby

Curling

Quidditch

Basketball

 

Only one of these is an actual sport and even it is a girl's sport that boys play because they are afraid of wrestling.

LeBron has been to the last 6 NBA Championships with 2 different teams.  The Cavs were in last place before LeBron came home and the next year they were in the finals.  Same with his HS team.  I don't think any player on Akron STVSTM went any higher than D2 to play ball.  They were beating teams badly that had 3 + players going to top D1 schools. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christiano Ronaldo is a bad example just because of the position he plays. Like previously mentioned, a goalie would better serve the purpose of being a game changer and there are many examples of that in soccer. The last world cup the Costa Rican team made a deep run due to the very strong play of their keeper. Also in soccer a top notch midfielder could also serve the purpose of a game changer.

I'd agree a good goalie is hard to find and worth having as a great equalizer.  For the U.S. Tim Howard keep the USMNT in many games they should have been blown out of due to his great saves.  When the defenders fail a good goalie can still make the team look good on paper.  I'd imagine the same is true with Hockey or other goalie related sports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd agree a good goalie is hard to find and worth having as a great equalizer.  For the U.S. Tim Howard keep the USMNT in many games they should have been blown out of due to his great saves.  When the defenders fail a good goalie can still make the team look good on paper.  I'd imagine the same is true with Hockey or other goalie related sports.

Yes Tim Howard was definitely a top ten keeper and at his peak maybe top 5. He was a rock for the US at the last world cup. In hockey I would imagine a top goalie to be an even greater equalizer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LeBron has been to the last 6 NBA Championships with 2 different teams.  The Cavs were in last place before LeBron came home and the next year they were in the finals.  Same with his HS team.  I don't think any player on Akron STVSTM went any higher than D2 to play ball.  They were beating teams badly that had 3 + players going to top D1 schools. 

 

 

That's a little disingenuous, to say the least.  

 

(1) The Irving team was in tank mode the second they realized Anthony Bennett was probably the worst pick in NBA History; and

 

(2) The Cavs didn't just add Lebron, they added Kevin Love, J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert, Mozgov, Mike Miller, Dion Waiters, and a couple other vets that played bit parts.  The roster was completely turned over, and now included the best player in the league (Lebron) and an all-star that put up 26/12 one season ealier (Love).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a little disingenuous, to say the least.

 

(1) The Irving team was in tank mode the second they realized Anthony Bennett was probably the worst pick in NBA History; and

 

(2) The Cavs didn't just add Lebron, they added Kevin Love, J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert, Mozgov, Mike Miller, Dion Waiters and a couple other vets that played bit parts. The roster was completely turned over, and now included the best player in the league (Lebron) and an all-star that put up 26/12 one season ealier (Love).

Smith Shumpert and Mozgov were added midway through the season and I'm pretty sure the cavs drafted Waiters (who they later let go) first round in 2012. Either way w/o Lebron even adding those guys doesn't get you to the NBA finals. Also lets be real Bennett wasn't as bad of a draft bust as Kwame Brown lol at least I'm sure that's what Stephen A Smith would say Edited by NYWRESTLER94

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...