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2017 Zain Retherford vs 2008 Brent Metcalf


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#181 HawkFanactic1

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:39 AM

Metcalf techs Retherford. His pace is way too high for ZR to even think about keeping up with and no easy re-attack scores.

#182 MSU158

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:04 AM

Essentially the pass you give Metcalf can negate entire national championship seasons. Even if you count only sophomore through senior year, Cox still has a great argument for being ahead of Metcalf. The "extra" true freshman national championship year should get Cox the clear nod. It's amazing to me how Metcalf supporters come up with all sorts of ways to manufacture an all time great career for Metcalf out of thin air. It's very comical to be quite honest.

Between the two, going by all historically accepted criteria, it is Cox that has unquestionable all time great career

I simply choose to not punish him for being loyal to the guy that recruited him.  It's not like he went 15-15 as a Freshman and didn't qualify for NCAA's.  I didn't come up with any way to manufacture anything.  I have been saying from the beginning to compare the 3 years he was actually eligible to wrestle.  The only reason I even brought up his freshman year is because others were using the freshman year's of those he was compared to.

 

If you want to say that 4 years is the only way to judge a wrestler, than Metcalf definitely falls short.  So does every single wrestler that was only eligible for that amount of time.


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#183 boconnell

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:20 AM

I simply choose to not punish him for being loyal to the guy that recruited him.  It's not like he went 15-15 as a Freshman and didn't qualify for NCAA's.  I didn't come up with any way to manufacture anything.  I have been saying from the beginning to compare the 3 years he was actually eligible to wrestle.  The only reason I even brought up his freshman year is because others were using the freshman year's of those he was compared to.

 

If you want to say that 4 years is the only way to judge a wrestler, than Metcalf definitely falls short.  So does every single wrestler that was only eligible for that amount of time.

It's not punishing Metcalf to count the freshman year of a guy like Cox.  Metcalf gets extra loyalty points for sticking with Brands.  While guys who wrestled as freshmen get extra wrestling points for wrestling.  



#184 BadgerMon

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:28 AM

Metcalf losing a year of eligibility makes it very hard to truly do a side by side comparison.  I am nearly as big of a fan of IMar as I was Metcalf, so it is very hard for me to say who has had a better career so far.  1 extra loss doesn't really move it away from Metcalf to me considering they both made the finals 3 times and won it twice.  Obviously, IMar did it as a Freshman so that adds some weight.  To be fair, we should do the comparison similar to the way this thread started and look at IMar's last 3 years once he finishes up next season.

 

When it comes to Metcalf comparisons, think of it similar to Gable or the other top guys that couldn't wrestle as Freshman.

Gable's freshman year was superior to Metcalf's, to be real. His Midlands championship over Hatta and Behm are heads and tails ahead of anyone that Metcalf defeated . Not quite a fair comparison.

 

That being said...Brent Metcalf is one heckuva wrestler and competitor.



#185 HurricaneWrestling

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:30 AM

1, 5, 1, 1  plus Olympic bronze      >      1, 2, 1  plus Pan-American bronze



#186 bigmik

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:23 AM

I simply choose to not punish him for being loyal to the guy that recruited him. It's not like he went 15-15 as a Freshman and didn't qualify for NCAA's. I didn't come up with any way to manufacture anything. I have been saying from the beginning to compare the 3 years he was actually eligible to wrestle. The only reason I even brought up his freshman year is because others were using the freshman year's of those he was compared to.

If you want to say that 4 years is the only way to judge a wrestler, than Metcalf definitely falls short. So does every single wrestler that was only eligible for that amount of time.

Any ranking that doesn't have Cox (a clear ATG) over Metcalf in NCAA wrestling careers is severely flawed. You're criteria is elevating Metcalf to a level that he did not earn on the mat.

I'd like to see how you have Metcalf stacking up to Oliver. Oliver's career seems to match up even better under your proposed method than Cox's. Which is interesting because I think it's safe to say that Oliver's career would fall somewhere behind Cox's on most people's list.

Edited by bigmik, 21 April 2017 - 12:30 PM.


#187 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:07 PM

Although a great trolling attempt, during this season of lost eligibility, Metcalf competed in both folkstyle and freestyle competitions. He competed unattached in three open college tournaments, winning all three en route to compiling a 14-0 record at 149 pounds. He won Omaha's Kaufman-Brand Open, an event that included a number of top Division I teams.

 

 

If he was undefeated, then this was not the season he lost to the Cornell back up.      Honest mistake, it's been a decade or more.         



#188 Plasmodium

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:22 AM

Personally, I think Metcalf's better years came much later.  He made a couple of world teams and represented us with dignity and gave everything he had - much bigger accomplishments than NCAA titles. The man paid his dues and gave the sport all he had.

I like ZR also.He has a lot in common with Metcalf.



#189 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 06:28 AM

A lot of fans forget Brent rose to #2 ranking in the world.   For a guy with his talent and his technical level, that = getting the max out of his potential.    Brent is an inspiration


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#190 bigmik

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Posted Yesterday, 12:00 AM

MSU158,

Would you agree that Oliver had a superior final 3 years than Metcalf? Just looking at the stats, I don't see how Oliver does not have the clear edge.

#191 tec87

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Posted Yesterday, 08:02 AM

This thread gives me a headache but if anyone is going to knock metcalf for his true frosh season, remember his brother died the fall of his true frosh year of college and he was away from his family during that time. By no means am I making excuses for him but that puts his true frosh yr in context and also vtech didn't have the most stellar schedule at the time as they weren't the power that they became the last few yrs.
FIRE UP CHIPS!!!!

#192 bigmik

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Posted Yesterday, 09:30 AM

This thread gives me a headache but if anyone is going to knock metcalf for his true frosh season, remember his brother died the fall of his true frosh year of college and he was away from his family during that time. By no means am I making excuses for him but that puts his true frosh yr in context and also vtech didn't have the most stellar schedule at the time as they weren't the power that they became the last few yrs.


All due respect, but that sounds like an excuse. Some athletes perform far better after losing a close family member, it doesn't seem like that is the conclusion you want someone to draw after becoming familiar with those facts.

#193 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted Yesterday, 09:58 AM

^^^Gable comes to mind.   


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#194 HawkFanactic1

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Posted Yesterday, 06:42 PM

All due respect, but that sounds like an excuse. Some athletes perform far better after losing a close family member, it doesn't seem like that is the conclusion you want someone to draw after becoming familiar with those facts.


Well he's not a Penn State wrestler so how could he ever be mentally tough or be going through things. You probably say the Spencer Lee injury was no excuse for him losing. Typical hatred for Hawks.




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