Jump to content


Photo

2017 Zain Retherford vs 2008 Brent Metcalf


  • Please log in to reply
253 replies to this topic

#241 MSU158

MSU158

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,086 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:07 AM

What are you talking about?

I don't know, what are you talking about?



#242 bigmik

bigmik

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,215 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:12 AM

I thought you were trying to point out some inconsistency in my position. My stance on this matter is clear, Zain belongs on another tier of collegiate wrestler if he wins next year. He would be an undisputed all time great, and Metcalf would be just a notch below great.

Edited by bigmik, 28 April 2017 - 09:12 AM.


#243 MSU158

MSU158

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,086 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:14 AM

I would agree that Retherford would deserve to be above Metcalf as an All-Time Great if he wins NCAA's this upcoming season.

#244 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 9,133 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:17 AM

Yeah and the guy Zain beat in the finals this year just lost first round to a guy who was never a D1 AA.

 

 

Which just goes to show you the myriad possibilities whereby Metcalf's contemporaries can get so many finalists without having all time greats. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#245 bigmik

bigmik

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,215 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:18 AM

All due respect to Metcalf, but I'm not going to bend, shape, and mold the data beyond how it's been historically accepted to somehow manufacture all timer status for him. You must go against the natural interpretation of the data to arrive at that conclusion.

#246 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 9,133 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:19 AM

I would say winning WTT's right after you win an NCAA Championship is a compelling argument to use over someone that (hypothetically) did not.  Did Megaludis do that?  Cruz still has a ways to go to do that to, doesn't he?

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. That whole generation of guys that Metcalf was beating may or may not have been as some other guys from another generation. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#247 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 9,133 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:19 AM

The guy is 4 years removed from DI Wrestling.  I am not sure referencing a loss in Freestyle TODAY is all that relevant.  Also, he is about 10th on that "list" of Metcalf's great competitors.  Choosing him as the guy to crusade against doesn't really seem like a strong argument to me.  But, you should at least get bigmik to support you since it minutely supports his argument.

 

Yet again, I am happy to disagree with the "we" community in this case.  Have a great weekend!

 

 

He was three years before making a final when Metcalf beat him. See, anyone can do this. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#248 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 9,133 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:20 AM

I would agree that Retherford would deserve to be above Metcalf as an All-Time Great if he wins NCAA's this upcoming season.

 

 

Everyone would say that without even thinking about it for one second. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#249 Cletus_Tucker

Cletus_Tucker

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 2,562 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 04:08 PM

Well, Jordan Oliver beats Zain Rutherford tonight and he advances to the final against Molinaro.   The old dog still has a few tricks up his sleeve and the Nittany Lion got a does of it at the South Point resort and casino.    As a Cael fan and fan of his guys,  I'm pulling for Zain to finish in the top 3.   



#250 HawkFanactic1

HawkFanactic1

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 379 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 04:41 PM

Metcalf beats Zain and it's not even close. He gets in on his legs and finishes because he is such a solid finisher. He wouldn't give up those re-attack scores like everyone else does. Zain has very little to no offense against elite guys without re-attacks.

Metcalf doesn't go down and wins by 4-6. He may break Retherford mentally and widen the gap big time.

Also ZR has wrestled no one to the caliber of Burroughs (as a sophomore), Darrion Caldwell, or Bubba Jenkins. He'd have struggled with all 3 of them and I'd choose the sophomore Burroughs over him.

#251 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,048 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 04:45 PM

Metcalf beats Zain and it's not even close. He gets in on his legs and finishes because he is such a solid finisher. He wouldn't give up those re-attack scores like everyone else does. Zain has very little to no offense against elite guys without re-attacks.
Metcalf doesn't go down and wins by 4-6. He may break Retherford mentally and widen the gap big time.
Also ZR has wrestled no one to the caliber of Burroughs (as a sophomore), Darrion Caldwell, or Bubba Jenkins. He'd have struggled with all 3 of them and I'd choose the sophomore Burroughs over him.

I agree with a lot of things you post, it adamantly disagree with you here. I won't pick a winner here because for its too close to call, but I definitely don't think Metclaf breaks Zain here. The kid is the real deal. I see a tight physical bruising style match since they both like the grind.

Sophomore Jordan Burroughs was no where near what we know of him today. Neither was junior Burroughs that won at 157. With that said I don't see sophomore Burroughs beating Zain, nor do I see 149 Bubba Jenkins beating Zain. Zain gas tank would crush 149 Jenkins..

Edited by BigTenFanboy, 28 April 2017 - 04:48 PM.


#252 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 9,133 posts

Posted 28 April 2017 - 11:22 PM

Oliver wrestled doing nothing for 5:55 ladt nite, then he had 5 seconds of counter action. The new rules are the type of thing that send guys the MMA route.

I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#253 tightwaist

tightwaist

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,195 posts

Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:13 AM

Metcalf beats Zain and it's not even close. He gets in on his legs and finishes because he is such a solid finisher. He wouldn't give up those re-attack scores like everyone else does. Zain has very little to no offense against elite guys without re-attacks.

Metcalf doesn't go down and wins by 4-6. He may break Retherford mentally and widen the gap big time.

Also ZR has wrestled no one to the caliber of Burroughs (as a sophomore), Darrion Caldwell, or Bubba Jenkins. He'd have struggled with all 3 of them and I'd choose the sophomore Burroughs over him.

 

Please...not even a viable thought.  Metcalf breaks Retherford?  That is classic.  Folks look nostalgically at that era of 149, since so many won a title.  Retherford would have probably given up a TD to Bubba or Caldwell, then reversed them and made them tap.  Caldwell, while a great talent, was a 2X AA...with double digit losses in college.  He was pinned twice in the Southern Scuffle his sophomore year.  Metcalf tech'd him in the All Star match.  Can you imagine Retherford being pinned twice and then someone racking up 20 points against him?  Bubba was hit or miss.  Great talent, but you never knew which wrestler would show up.  He had 20 plus losses in his career.  Schlatter was a shell of himself after his amazing Freshmen season.  O'Conner didn't even place as a Jr., as the # 5 seed (losing 1-0, and 2-1).  Gillespie won in a year that was wide-open, with no Metcalf & an injured Schlatter

 

The only wrestler from that era that would be a problem for Retherford is Burroughs.  His ability to score from space would be hard for Retheford to defend. 



#254 TobusRex

TobusRex

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,753 posts

Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:55 PM

Agreed. I don't think Caldwell was near the wrestler Zain is. Inconsistent and nowhere near as good on the mat. Could Caldwell have beaten Zain? Sure, anything can happen on the mat. But I'd favor Zain vs Caldwell if both were magically in their "primes".  I think Metcalf would give Zain more trouble than Caldwell, but I think Zain would win that as well.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users