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bigmik

Is it time to get rid of the escape point?

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This is folkstyle here yes? Becuase the fact that this is folkstyle i will continue to remind you of the style we are discussing. And I love how you point out how I'm merely stating facts. Sorry, I'll remember NOT to mention facts when explaining WHY an escape is worth 1 point. I was being sarcastic there. The fact that it doesn't make sense to you is mind boggling to me. And yes you are gaining half an advantage from the position you were in when you escape. Going from defensive position to neutral is exactly that. Half way to the offensive position. Thus why its worth point. I'm using your words. Now keep in mind I didn't invent the sport so no I don't need to justify the scoring rules, but the again to me it makes logical sense considering the focal point of folkstyle wrestling is about controlling your opponent.

Please leave the thread and start your own. You are being stupid. Stop reminding me that it's folkstyle wrestling that I'm discussing. I made the thread. Also, learn how to make a meaningful point. But learn that on your own time in your own thread.

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Please leave the thread and start your own. You are being stupid. Stop reminding me that it's folkstyle wrestling that I'm discussing. I made the thread. Also, learn how to make a meaningful point. But learn that on your own time in your own thread.

I've made very clear points. You ask why, I explain why. Sorry if you disagree or don't understand them.

 

The irony here is that most posts on this thread seem to feel that the escape point is valid and should remain. Yet I'm the one that's being stupid here.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I've made very clear points. You ask why, I explain why. Sorry if you disagree or don't understand them.

Your point are not clear. Again, please start your own thread.

 

"And yes you are gaining half an advantage from the position you were in when you escape. Going from defensive position to neutral is exactly that. Half way to the offensive position. Thus why its worth point"

 

This is incoherent. Getting to a neutral position is not gaining half an advantage. Please feel free to clarify in YOUR OWN thread sir. Thanks.

 

Btw, the focal point of all the major wrestling styles is controlling your opponent. The styles simply disagree with what it means to "control" your opponent.

Edited by bigmik

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Ok so let me ask you this. Two wrestlers each score a takedown. 1 wrestler Earned an escape by getting out from button. The other didn't and got ridden then entire time. Who wins this match? You can't be serious in believing that this was an even match.

Please. Start. Your. Own. Thread.

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I haven't hijacked your thread. Everything I posted has been on topic. You disagree or dont understand my point of view and that's fine, thus resort to calling me stupid and telling me to leave, yet it's my behavior that's subpar?

 

To remain on topic let's give another match time scenario.

 

In a match 1 wrestler escapes, the other doesn't. No takedowns were scored by either wrestler. Should the wrestler that escaped win the match? Or should the match go into overtime?

 

I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm very seriously asking you according to your logic.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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We ABSOLUTELY need to get rid of the escape point, or, introduce a "let up" rule.

 

I keep thinking of Snyder and his matches. If he takes a guy down 10 times in a match, the match is 20-9, until that final escape point is given. In reality, Snyder just decimated whomever he "broke", and the score of 20-0 is MUCH more indicative of how badly Snyder destroyed the kid (and yes, I know it would be a 16-0 TF before it ever got to 20-0).

 

Or... in this hypothetical, Snyder takes a guy down 5 times, and lets him up 5 times, it's 10-5. Really? Then, in this hypothetical, Snyder gets "Gadson'ed", 2TD and 4NF, and he's down 11-10 suddenly? Snyder gets out from bottom, it's an 11-11 tie. In my book, it should be 10-6 Snyder in this hypothetical.

 

For the "let up" rule (see also how Zain rides on top with free hands from time to time), the rider could motion that he's invoking the let up rule, and they whistle and go back to their feet. Bottom guy cannot initiate, just the top guy in control. And, it cannot be done without the ref conceding that the top rider has control (thus averting a "let up" while potentially being reversed or flipped).

 

I appreciate your scenario but how do you objectively determine the difference between a true escape where the top man is unable to hold his opponent down vs a top man who is fully in control, but knows he won't be able to hold his opponent down indefinitely thus invoking your "let up" rule to get the easy way out of not giving up points?

 

As for getting gadsoned, that's one of the beautiful things about wrestling is there's always an big equalizer at any given moment. What if Snyder were to get pinned from a big throw? Is there that big of a difference here?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I haven't hijacked your thread. Everything I posted has been on topic. You disagree or dont understand my point of view and that's fine, thus resort to calling me stupid and telling me to leave, yet it's my behavior that's subpar?

To remain on topic let's give another match time scenario.

In a match 1 wrestler escapes, the other doesn't. No takedowns were scored by either wrestler. Should the wrestler that escaped win the match? Or should the match go into overtime?

I'm not trying to be a troll, I'm very seriously asking you according to your logic.

Yes, it's your behavior that's been sub par. 1) Your first posts says that anyone that holds my position is out of their mind. 2) In the same post you went off on a tangent about freestyle when it had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Mentioning how you hate the idea of switching to freestyle and how you much prefer folkstyle. This had absolutely nothing to do with the thread. 3) After I point this out to you, instead of acknowledging your mistake and changing your behavior, you double down on your nonsensical tangent. Saying that I'm implying we change folkstye to freestyle when the thought never even crossed my mind. "You can back pedal all you want but it's pretty obvious what you're getting at." Utter nonsense. I told you what I was getting at. If I wanted to make an argument for switching to freestyle, I would have made it. Freestyle is not my concern. I would be in favor of this change even if freestyle were to cease to exist at this very moment. 4) After this nonsense you still go off continuing to tell me why freestyle is what it is and why freestyle changes so much and blah blah blah. That has nothing to do with why I started the topic. 5) After I repeatedly tell you my intention for starting the thread, and how it had nothing to do with freestyle, you continue with your drivel. "This is folkstyle here yes? Because the fact that this is folkstyle i will continue to remind you of the style we are discussing." Huh? I created the thread, I know exactly what style we are talking about. You don't have to remind me of anything. You feel the need to continue to remind of something that I have not forgotten. You are being idiotic. Your behavior warrants me using those words. That's not an insult. 6) Objectively speaking, no, everything you have said has not been on topic. I understand you quite well and I understand that you have been off topic multiple times. Telling me that I'm really trying to imply that we should switch to freestyle is NOT on topic. It's not true. And it's stupid. Note, I didn't call you stupid. I said you are being stupid. I'm not responsible for you acting this way. Own up to your behavior, or,please, get lost. Edited by bigmik

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People that start threads don't actually own them.

Of course. I don't think it's unreasonable, however, to ask someone to leave the thread after they make unfounded accusations and take the discussion off topic. Especially when they won't acknowledge their mistakes, after having it pointed out for them, and continue to do more of the same.

Edited by bigmik

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Look who's going off on a tangent. I clearly explained my point of view as to why an escape is worth 1 point and you continue to go why why why.. it doesn't make sense. Well clearly the people to created this scoring system seem to think it made sense. The people who maintain the rules think it makes sense.

 

You are not the judge and jury on what mistakes I or anyone in this board makes. What I see is an overtly sensitive person who is getting bent out of shape because someone disagrees with him. If I hurt your feelings I certainly apologize for that, As for disagreeing with your opinion I make none. If you don't like the way I explain things you're entitled to your opinion as well, but you are not of the authority to validate or invalidate anything I say. Nor are you of the authority to tell me to leave a discussion on this board simply because you created the topic.

 

As for my mentioning freestyle it very much is relevant considering that there are no points awarded for escapes in freestyle.I was pointing out my personal distaste for that scoring system and do not want to see it carry over into this folkstyle. You claim thst wrestkers will continue to work for escapes becuase it gives them the opportunity for takedowns of their own. I disagree. If a wrestler is easily taken down by a superior wrestler what incentive does he have to escape only to be taken down again? He's going to work for reversals and reversals only. If a wrestler is on bottom and the score is tied with only a few seconds left, he's more inclined to run out the clock and take the match to overtime than he is to actively try to escape with no point to be awarded.

 

Furthermore you still won't answer the scenarios I previously gave displaying the value of having escapes worth one point.

 

So why don't we get back on topic and why don't you explain how you would score this scenario.

 

A full match is wrestled. No takedowns scored by either.1 wrestler escapes.The other gets ridden his entire time on buttom. What should the score at the end of the match? 0-0? Does it go to overtime?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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You still refuse to acknowledge your mistakes. I don't care that you disagree. I do care that you continuously go off topic and make unfounded accusations about what am "really trying to get at".

 

"You can back pedal all you want but it's pretty obvious what you're getting at." This has no basis in reality. I would know better than you what I'm thinking. Then you have the nerve to keep saying that you didn't take this thread off topic.

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I am trying to continue the discussion. You are going off on a tangent. Yet o hijacked the thread.

You made false accusations repeatedly. You aren't willing to own up to that or hijacking the thread. And then you want me to simply continue as if none of this happened.

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You made false accusations repeatedly. You aren't willing to own up to that or hijacking the thread. And then you want me to simply continue as if none of this happened.

Correct. I refuse to own up to things I didn't do. IMO I didn't falsely accuse you, I believe that is your alterior motive there for its an accurate accusation. You can deny it. That's your right. Doesn't mean I have to believe you.

 

Furthermore I didn't hijack the thread because it's always been about 1 point escapes.

 

Also I want to hear your answer on those scoring scenarios

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Correct. I refuse to own up to things I didn't do. IMO I didn't falsely accuse you, I believe that is your exterior motive.

Furthermore I didn't hijack the thread because it's always been about 1 point escapes.

Also I want to hear your answer on those scoring scenarios

You did do it. That's the point. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

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Correct. I refuse to own up to things I didn't do. IMO I didn't falsely accuse you, I believe that is your alterior motive there for its an accurate accusation. You can deny it. That's your right. Doesn't mean I have to believe you.

Furthermore I didn't hijack the thread because it's always been about 1 point escapes.

Also I want to hear your answer on those scoring scenarios

If I wanted to make an argument for switching to freestyle I would be direct. Why in the world would I try to cover this up? It's not as though it's an off limits opinion.

 

No, just because you believe that your unfounded accusation is correct, doesn't make it an accurate accusation. What if I accused you of secretly arguing to get rid of basketball for some reason? If I really believe is it true? You can't be this dull.

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