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It is not "unconscious bias." It's a rigged outcome. Call it what it is. A nation sport's federation is blatantly playing favorites and their favorite keeps getting the benefit of playing by different rules while mysteriously getting every subjective call. Does Burroughs win this match in Russia or Rio or anywhere but under the auspices of US wrestling? This is the second time Dake outwrestled him and yet the system found a way. That is why my Rio call was so easy. Not hard to predict what will happen when a protected athlete is not being protected any longer, where all of the sudden those calls are not going his way and the deck is not stacked. This is another match where Burroughs could not get to Dake's legs. Once that was apparent we can foresee all the rest. 

 

Reviewing the match again, the face pushing and head pushing was going on all match. Burrough's first point was due to a blatant head/face push. Not only does this account for his entire "offense" but it was his main defense.  Then you have the passivity calls that even the announcers were questioniing. And the late passivity call (the third against Dake in the match I believe) was in reality a two point swing. Because due to the laughable scoring criteria Burroughs gets awarded the match based on a very cheap passivity point where Dake had two push outs to Burrough's one. That is virtually rigging the match. And again Burroughs won't get late passivity calls like this internationally. Speed is always the first thing that goes.  

 

If you want to label noticing you are getting repeatedly screwed by your sport's national governing body whining, OK.

 

So you believe its an actual conspiracy to keep Jordan Burroughs as the top guy?

I'm not being sarcastic or trolling here. I'm genuinely, legitimately asking.

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I didn't want to jump in until I had watched some matches. I just watched a few, and I have to say that I agree with everyone who is appalled at the officiating. 

 

In the Garrett vs. Ramos match, Garrett took a shot with 1:41 on the clock and was then put on the shot clock at 1:31. Passivity is being called on the wrestler who is leading regardless of what they are doing. 

 

While Dake certainly was not being as active as he could be, he was doing more offensively than Burroughs was. Yet Dake was the one who got hit with multiple passivity calls.

 

The rules should punish wrestlers for failing to initiate action, not for being in the lead.

Edited by Alyosha

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So you believe its an actual conspiracy to keep Jordan Burroughs as the top guy?

I'm not being sarcastic or trolling here. I'm genuinely, legitimately asking.

Do I think it is the Roy Jones Olympic boxing travesty where officials are getting paid off to rig results? No.

 

But do I think US wrestling plays favorites, telegraphs their preferred outcome, set up a system to guarantee preferred results as much as possible and that freestyle rules are subjective enough to prejudice the outcome? Absolutely.

 

And we do not need to envision smoke filled room style match fixing. The mini tournament/bye system was/is a blatant statement of official favoritism. US wrestling flat out said (shouted in fact) that they wanted a particular wrestler to win so badly that they would set up a farcical qualifying system that imposed a direct physical disadvantage on the challenger. No other sport does that. Heck no other wrestling nation does that. When you publicly go to those lengths, you do not need to tell the officials the result you want. They cannot miss it. It poisons everything. So Burrough's is the designated favorite son. You do not just need to beat him. You need to dominate him, because otherwise you just won't get the calls. I did not come up with the idea months ago that Dake needed to wrestle him outside the US out of thin air.   

Edited by straggler

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Same can be said for Dake. Dake actually benefited from the same two in a row shot clock in his earlier while he did " very little to earn them" (Dieringer)

 

That's funny. I thought Dake scored all the points and Ringer, who didn't even take a shot all match until the final 30 seconds out of desperation, scored none. Somehow, Ringer was more active, though?

 

Against JB, Dake not only took more shots, he scored more from his offensive attacks. Importantly, he did not blatantly break any rules as JB did.

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What is the rule regarding 3 pt stance in FS? I thought I heard Flo announcer say that JO was warned in a match for his 3 pt stance and JO didn't do it again. So, the question is simple, is it a rule or not? Should warnings have been issued or not?

The whole match would have been different if 1. Wrestlers are warned for 3 pt stance 2. If the official made the call. 3. Would have created openings for JB to score. 4. Would then force Dake to score. We could have seen a very entertaining and high scoring match.

I hope that the officials make the call at WTT so we can enjoy a great shoot out

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I didn't want to jump in until I had watched some matches. I just watched a few, and I have to say that I agree with everyone who is appalled at the officiating. 

 

In the Garrett vs. Ramos match, Garrett took a shot with 1:41 on the clock and was then put on the shot clock at 1:31. Passivity is being called on the wrestler who is leading regardless of what they are doing. 

 

While Dake certainly was not being as active as he could be, he was doing more offensively than Burroughs was. Yet Dake was the one who got hit with multiple passivity calls.

 

The rules should punish wrestlers for failing to initiate action, not for being in the lead.

 

Very well said. Particularly agree with your assessment of Dake-JB.

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What is the rule regarding 3 pt stance in FS? I thought I heard Flo announcer say that JO was warned in a match for his 3 pt stance and JO didn't do it again. So, the question is simple, is it a rule or not? Should warnings have been issued or not?

 

There is no explicit rule against them. It is a judgment call for the officials: is the 3-point stance being used purely to avoid action or to gain an advantageous position?

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Do I think it is the Roy Jones Olympic boxing travesty where officials are getting paid off to rig results? No.

 

But do I think US wrestling plays favorites, telegraphs their preferred outcome, set up a system to guarantee preferred results as much as possible and that freestyle rules are subjective enough to prejudice the outcome? Absolutely.

 

And we do not need to envision smoke filled room style match fixing. The mini tournament/bye system was/is a blatant statement of official favoritism. US wrestling flat out said (shouted in fact) that they wanted a particular wrestler to win so badly that they would set up a farcical qualifying system that imposed a direct physical disadvantage on the challenger. No other sport does that. Heck no other wrestling nation does that. When you publicly go to those lengths, you do not need to tell the officials the result you want. They cannot miss it. It poisons everything. So Burrough's is the designated favorite son. You do not just need to beat him. You need to dominate him, because otherwise you just won't get the calls. I did not come up with the idea months ago that Dake needed to wrestle him outside the US out of thin air.

 

Ok great. You and I are on the same page and agree then. With that said, I dont blame Burroughs here for being the beneficiary I blame the system of rules and rule makers that allow it. Snyder receives these same benefits, as will Cox.

 

I think they need to get rid of the bye to the finals. That's been in place for a very long time, well before Burroughs ever came along, so again I don't fault Burroughs and will take exception with anyone who does for this reason.

 

And mind you I was predicting a Dake win so I was disappointed in seeing him lose.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Thanks Nerd. Does Dake use the 3pt stance vs other opponents ?

That and a russian 2 on 1 were his main neutral positions as I remember it. Free style generally looks at the 3/4 point stance with much more scrutiny than folkstyle, though.

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Should there be physical standards for the officials in national events like the open and the trials.

 

I would love to know what the average BMI was there.

 

Do we think the trials will be sold out in Lincoln?

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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I still think the worst call of the event was Heflin not getting the fall over Nickal as the ref spent 10 seconds in the worst possible position to make the proper call.

 

I'm a Penn State guy and I'm not a fan of Nick Stallin but yeah, that was pretty egregious. NIckal was stuck. 

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Should there be physical standards for the officials in national events like the open and the trials.

 

I would love to know what the average BMI was there.

 

Do we think the trials will be sold out in Lincoln?

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I will be shocked if the trials are half full in Lincoln, never mind sold out.    

 

 

Lots of good points and numerous examples out there about the poor officiating and favoritism.   At the end of the day, integrity is most important.   If there is a hint of underhandedness, the fan base  won't like it, they leave angry, and they check out mentally.    And that's a shame.   I've been following this sport for over 60 years now, and I don't see it growing much and I believe it's largely due to us shooting ourselves in the foot.   

 

I also like the point made earlier about a protected champion not faring as well once on foreign soil and no longer protected.     Look, we all love Jordan Burroughs and what he has done for USA wrestling.   He deserves all the respect in the world and he will  have a place in the sports history.  He will be well remembered for his greatness as well as for being a gentlemen.       But when he smacks his opponent to the face repeatedly, that needs to be called.    And when his opponent does more offensively, the opponent shouldn't be called for passivity.   

 

I have my personal favorites, but the team comes first.   I want to see the best guy rightfully earn the spot, no matter who that is.      I left the arena feeling Rutherford may be the best guy in the weight class.   I think Dake is the best in his weight class.    Both have monumental up hill battles from here, just to try and make the team.   That doesn't seem right.    

 

Anyone want to weigh in on how well Flo's coverage at trials might go?  My guess is worse than the officiating this weekend.     Silver lining?    I probably will miss out on more Ramos wining.    

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That's funny. I thought Dake scored all the points and Ringer, who didn't even take a shot all match until the final 30 seconds out of desperation, scored none. Somehow, Ringer was more active, though?

 

Against JB, Dake not only took more shots, he scored more from his offensive attacks. Importantly, he did not blatantly break any rules as JB did.

Did he really score all the points? Or was he given a point he did not deserve? A point that would of put him behind and change the stategy of the match...Poor Kyle..never catches a break

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