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Angry_Fish

Where we Honestly Stand at Each Weight, IMO

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57 -- Ramos is still the favorite, especially with the bye.  But any of a number of guys -- Garrett, Tomasello, Nico, Graff have a legit shot at him if they have a good day.  

 

Prediction:  Ramos

 

61 -- Stieber.  End of discussion.

 

65 -- JO is now the favorite, but Zain and Molinaro are not far behind.  I no longer see Russell or Kennedy as legitimate threats.  Sure, they could get hot and beat one of the top 3, but given the structure of WTTs, I don't see them a legit shot at making the team.

 

Prediction: JO over Zain in 2 straight.

 

70 Green.  End of discussion.

 

74 I predicted Dake to win the US Open but The Champ got it done again, even if it was with some questionable officiating. Dieringer seemed to learn a little from his trashing by Dake in France.  This will be enough to take some gas out of Dake's engine in the challenger tourney and allow JB to make team again.

 

86 If Cox doesn't show up, Taylor by tech.  If Cox does show up, Taylor still wins two competitive bouts.

 

97 Snyder.  End of discussion

 

125 Gwiz in 3 close bouts.

 

 

Reserve the right to modify predictions if injuries or other developments occur in the Pan Am games or BtS.

 

My $0.02 

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I can't argue with most of that but after the open I can't help but think Zain will beat Oliver. IMHO he was simply better than Oliver and I can't see Oiver beating Zain twice.

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I think Cox controls DT. I think he is a match up nightmare being that he's so big, so quick, so hard to score on, and will be fresh. Give me Cox 6-2 and 5-3.

It's interesting to me how much DT goes after him.  DT shuts it down a bit against big time opponents and doesn't go with his typical all out attacking style.  I think if he attacks against Cox he wins, but if he hangs back I think Cox is better equipped to win close matches because he's much better defensively and positionally.

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See I think the opposite. I think if he were to all out attack, J'Den picks him apart like it's nobody's business. A more conservative style to pick your spots will work better but even still...I go with J'Den.

 

People are so quick to forget that he got bronze (one minor mistake from silver) in Rio. DT has wrestled extremely well as of late but we have to remember, these foreigners are not in the same shape we are except at World's and Olympics. I take those victories with a grain of salt. I do not take any of Coxs' victories with a grain of salt simply due to when they were and where they were

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See I think the opposite. I think if he were to all out attack, J'Den picks him apart like it's nobody's business. A more conservative style to pick your spots will work better but even still...I go with J'Den.

 

People are so quick to forget that he got bronze (one minor mistake from silver) in Rio. DT has wrestled extremely well as of late but we have to remember, these foreigners are not in the same shape we are except at World's and Olympics. I take those victories with a grain of salt. I do not take any of Coxs' victories with a grain of salt simply due to when they were and where they were

 

Yeah and he had to beat Salas in order to get that bronze.  The guy who probably still gives Herbert nightmares.  That was super impressive.  Cox would just seem so big against someone like Taylor.  

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See I think the opposite. I think if he were to all out attack, J'Den picks him apart like it's nobody's business. A more conservative style to pick your spots will work better but even still...I go with J'Den.

People are so quick to forget that he got bronze (one minor mistake from silver) in Rio. DT has wrestled extremely well as of late but we have to remember, these foreigners are not in the same shape we are except at World's and Olympics. I take those victories with a grain of salt. I do not take any of Coxs' victories with a grain of salt simply due to when they were and where they were

who's to say if the seeding at last year's Olympic trials weren't different Taylor wouldn't have been our Olympian. Jake Herbert was the number 1 seed, Dake 2, and Taylor 3. If you flipped Herbert and Dake's seeds it would have likely been Taylor vs Cox in the finals. Now just because Cox beat Dake, doesn't mean that he necessarily beats Taylor even back then. It's easy in hindsight to say Cox would have won, but by that logic you could say that Dake, Howe, or Taylor would have been a better rep to send at 74k than Burroughs considering Burroughs totally flopped out in Rio.

 

As for the bronze medal, I don't think ANYONE forgets it. If anything it's the biggest argument people have for Taylor not being able to beat him.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I can't argue with most of that but after the open I can't help but think Zain will beat Oliver. IMHO he was simply better than Oliver and I can't see Oiver beating Zain twice.

Zain is going to have to stop with the incessant hands to the face. That will be tough to do in 6 weeks. And if he does manage to stop, it will hurt his game and allow JO to open up on him.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I can't argue with most of that but after the open I can't help but think Zain will beat Oliver. IMHO he was simply better than Oliver and I can't see Oiver beating Zain twice.

 

Full disclosure, I am a biased JO fan.

 

Additionally though, remember when Zain beat Stieber in that dual meet.  Zain caught LS off guard.  LS was not prepared for what ZR brought to the table.  Once LS experienced it and was prepared for it, ZR never got close to him again.

 

I'm not saying ZR will never beat JO, but I do think JO will be better prepared if they meet in June.  And I know JO beat ZR a couple years ago, but I think it is clear that the current ZR is a different guy than JO easily controlled a couple years ago.

 

And let's not count out Molinaro.  I would not be surprised at all if he comes out of the bracket.

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And let's not count out Molinaro.  I would not be surprised at all if he comes out of the bracket.

 

I hope they meet in the finals of the mini-tourney. I don't know who I'd pick. I think familiarity helps Molinaro more than Retherford because I've always felt that it's harder to adjust to a more explosive and powerful wrestler even if you know his tendencies, so I'm leaning Molinaro.

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I hope they meet in the finals of the mini-tourney. I don't know who I'd pick. I think familiarity helps Molinaro more than Retherford because I've always felt that it's harder to adjust to a more explosive and powerful wrestler even if you know his tendencies, so I'm leaning Molinaro.

The head slaps and fingers to the eyes infractions may be to high to count if these two hook up. 

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Zain is going to have to stop with the incessant hands to the face. That will be tough to do in 6 weeks. And if he does manage to stop, it will hurt his game and allow JO to open up on him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dont really care who wins or have an opinion. What I can say is since JO left college he has never "opened" up on anyone. The little he wrestles is not exactly an offensive clinic. Hope he does well though. Just not expecting a Stieber type output.

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Dont really care who wins or have an opinion. What I can say is since JO left college he has never "opened" up on anyone. The little he wrestles is not exactly an offensive clinic. Hope he does well though. Just not expecting a Stieber type output.

 

He's undefeated against Stieber in Freestyle.

 

I agree though that he adopted a more conservative style in Freestyle, at least against top competition.  He is so hard to score on.  Once he gets up by a couple points, he often gets conservative so not to jeopardize the win.  I remember Metcalf commenting in an interview that getting a lead on JO was critical to the victory bc he can be "so stingy" in giving up points if he does not have to score.  

 

In JO's recent interviews he has commented that he has been focusing much more of his training on scoring from the top than he has in the past.  If he is successful (and he probably needs to be to medal at worlds), you may see the scores open up.  I hope so.

Edited by Angry_Fish

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Has Graff and Garrett faced off against each other at 57? Because I believe that's who we see in the finals of the mini tournament. I know Graff is great and has always been one of the top handful of guys, but he has never put it all together to make a Senior World/Olympic team. Having seen him today at the Pan Am's makes me think that maybe this time will be different at the WTT. If he blows through the WTT field like he did with his competition at the Pan Am's, not giving up a point and teching everyone, perhaps he'll be pretty fresh if he prevails to take on TRam.

Edited by de4856

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Has Graff and Garrett faced off against each other at 57? Because I believe that's who we see in the finals of the mini tournament. I know Graff is great and has always been one of the top handful of guys, but he has never put it all together to make a Senior World/Olympic team. Having seen him today at the Pan Am's makes me think that maybe this time will be different at the WTT. If he blows through the WTT field like he did with his competition at the Pan Am's, not giving up a point and teching everyone, perhaps he'll be pretty fresh if he prevails to take on TRam.

 

This is exactly the reason why I'm not terribly worried about the mini-tournament for Taylor but really think the mini tournament gives Burroughs a huge advantage. Dake wrestles tight matches plus the competition at 74 is stiffer than 86. 

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Dake wrestles tight matches? With who? He TF's anyone at the weight other than Burroughs and Dieringer, and there's a chance we see another TF against Dieringer the next time they meet.

His underserved reputation made him say that. In reality, you are correct. In fantasyland, Dake always barely wins when he wins and loses very often.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Has Graff and Garrett faced off against each other at 57? 

 

Graff teched Garrett in about a minute in OTT  wrestlebacks last year (1 takedown and 4 leg laces). 

 

Seeding should be 1. Graff, 2. Garrett, 3. NaTo.  If those hold, that would be a great semifinal.  I think I'd actually lean Tomasello, but could go either way. 

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57K is deep and the difference between Graff,  Nato, Mega, Perelli, Sanders, Garret and Ramos is not large.  Ramos having a bye until the finals is a huge advantage and near impossible for anyone else to overcome as the competitors at this weight are going to start mauling each from the quarters on.  At 66K it's a four man weight with JO at the top.  Molinaro still strikes me as the best guy but he's going to have to win at least one really tough bout (probably Retherford) with Kennedy still in the mix.  I was never a huge Molinaro fan until the Olympics but he won me over.  He wrestled his butt off and very nearly beat Chamizo.  If he makes the finals, Molinaro will bring that size-able chip on his shoulder into his bouts with JO.  And JO has not always handled pressure well.  I'd still bet on JO but counting out Molinaro would be a big mistake.  

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What I THINK our team will be:

57kg - Ramos (why?  the bye.  that's the only reason)

61kg - Stieber (why?  because if Maple is the best of the rest, we already know how that played out, and Stieber can score at will on ANYONE)

65kg - Oliver (why?  because of the bye, and his did the job at the Open)

70kg - Green (why?  He's the best we have at this weight... this year... ahem...)

74kg - Burroughs (why?  He's Jordan "Freaking" Burroughs, and has the bye)

86kg - Taylor (Why?  because Taylor just "woke up" the past few months, and is looking unstoppable)

97kg - Snyder (why?  because it's the Boy King, and I think this year, he proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is more than 1-2pts better than the next in the USA)

HWT - Gwiz (why?  he broke through against Rey, and that is a huge confidence builder.  Only up from here)

 

What I WANT our team to be:

57kg - Graff (I watched him at Schultz a few months ago... please oh please oh please take down Ramos)

61kg - Stieber (When "on"... unbeatable.)

65kg - Retherford (I "want" this, because it would simply be "cool")

70kg - Green (Although watching Nolf is worth the price of admission, he's not ready)

74kg - Dake (I definitely would like to see what he's made of against top international stars, consistently)

86kg - Taylor (I'm a DT fan, and having Dake and Taylor B2B is "made for TV")

97kg - Snyder (I'd love to see the Boy King TF or WBF against Gadsen, just to prove a point)

HWT - Gwiz (I want this to be his, for a year or two, because Gable Steveson is coming... like "Winter is Coming")

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