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Mark Perry hype as a coach. Help me understand.

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Can someone please explain the incredible hype out there on Mark Perry as a coach. I have never seen anything like this for an assistant coach/associate head coach. Some people are talking like he is going to be the savior of Iowa's program but his coaching record for overall improving teams he has coached is actually pretty dismal. I will give him full credit for Jesse Delgado and Imar's success (lets assume Jeremy Hunter and Heffernan had no part in this). But the remainder of the team generally under-performs big time.

In Perry's 9 years of coaching at 3 different universities it appears that only 2 times has a team improved in subsequent years when he was there (2015,2016). 4 times they got worse as a team (2011, 2013, 2014, 2017).

How does that record generate this kind of hype?

 

2008 Penn State before Perry - 3rd place at NCAA's

2009 Penn State - Perry's takes over practices at PSU - they drop to 17th place at NCAA's

Cael takes over in 2010. PSU finishes 9,1,1,1,1,6,1,1 at NCAA's over the next 8 years.

 

2010 Cal Poly - Perry's first year of coaching at Cal Poly - 18th place at NCAA's only one graduating senior this year among the starters.

2011 Cal Poly - Perry's 2nd year at Cal Poly. Co-head coach - 30th place at NCAA's. They finished 6th out of 7th in Pac 10's. Finishing ahead of Cal State Fullerton. They did not have one returning NCAA point for 2012. Despite being hired as head coach for Cal Poly for 2012, Perry leaves to Illinois.

 

2012 Illinois Perry's first year at IU. Assoc Head Coach - 7th at NCAA's

2013 Illinois Perry's 2nd year at IU Assoc Head Coach - 9th at NCAA's (great returning team that was ranked 5th as late as January)

2014 Illinois Perry's 3rd year at IU Associate Head Coach - 13th at NCAAs (team was ranked 6th at beginning of season) Jesse Delgado scored the bulk of the team's points as he did in 2013.

2015 Illinois,4th year,finishes in 12th place at Nationals, improving from 13th last year thanks mostly to super freshman and champion Isaiah Martinez.

2016 Illinois,5th year, finishes 9th place at Nationals.

2017 Illinois,6th year, finishes 11th place at Nationals. Both Richards and Brunson are graduating. Perry leaves to Iowa.

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1) he has no freestyle credentials because he's physically shot.

2) he got michalak to beat Varner and Novachov has beaten a lot of studs

3) PSU fans should be thanking him because he's the one who helped win your first titles...since you know he's the whole reason Ed Ruth came to Scum U.

 

 

He's not a HC but his current position is perfect. He is basically an individual coach for the guys he cares about and he's using HWC to do it. Quit getting so caught up on his lack of freestyle credentials, he can obviously coach well enough to get a guy to beat Varner and another guy to beat Nolf...oh and another guy to beat McDonough and Nashon.

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He had a strong career in high school and college and went to coaching right away making an impact on both recruiting and developing talent. On top of that he has had several elite guys perform tremendously at the D1 level and attribute much of their success to him specifically.

 

I still think it's getting a bit more news than it's really worth simply because Iowa is continuing to fall down the ladder in D1. This was their strongest class for a couple seasons and they still barely managed a 4th place finish. Next year they will be lucky to get 5th and not being top 10 is a real possibility (though I think they avoid this) so any remotely good news is great for them right now. This hire should buy TnT at least one additional season as the fan base seems to be favorable to the changing atmosphere. The funny thing to me was that most of the Iowa faithful on the Rivals forum had no love for Perry at all until the hire. Kind of comical, but when your teams outlook is that poor I suppose you can start finding positives real quick. 

 

It will be interesting to see what the fans say after next seasons inevitable floundering. I imagine the 18/19 season will look pretty positive with some of the incoming recruits, though.

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I think a large part of having a successful team is based on recruiting.  Not only being able to attract the blue chip guys, but being able to recognize talent that will develop in college.  Too, being a strong technical coach is critical to developing the wrestler year over year.  I am hard pressed to think of a better program than Iowa for developing wrestlers and getting the most out of their team.  

 

I don't see how a coaching change would be positive.  Maybe they think Perry will "soften" the perception of what some recruits may consider an outdated mindset and help with recruiting.  Penn State and Ohio State are out-recruiting Iowa.  As the potential new head coach, I think that would be  step backwards.

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Just curious (not trying to stir the pot), who all has Iowa brought up and turned into a star who wasn't already on that trajectory? I would think there are more examples of top level guys who came in and crapped the bed under the brands coaching than guys who came in as unheralded and shot for the moon. Jeva (cuz I can't remember how to spell his name), Moore and the older tsirtsis all come to mind right away when I think of top level recruits who didn't pan put under the brands bro's guidance.

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Just curious (not trying to stir the pot), who all has Iowa brought up and turned into a star who wasn't already on that trajectory? I would think there are more examples of top level guys who came in and crapped the bed under the brands coaching than guys who came in as unheralded and shot for the moon. Jeva (cuz I can't remember how to spell his name), Moore and the older tsirtsis all come to mind right away when I think of top level recruits who didn't pan put under the brands bro's guidance.

 

Sure.  I guess it depends on how you want to define "already on that trajectory".  I tend to think of the Top 10 P4P recruits as the guys who "should" be stars, but reasonable minds can disagree; I'll use my parameters since it's my post.

 

 Neither Thomas Gilman nor Cory Clark were surefire superstars coming out of high school.  Gilman was #16 and Clark #23 on D1CW.  Good, but not bluest of blue chip type recruits, and both became perennial title contenders for their last three years of competition.  Dan Dennis is probably the most famous example under the Brands brothers.  Nobody thought Brandon Sorensen was going to be as good as he was, and definitely not that quickly, where he was top 4 as a freshman; he was D1CW's #27 recruit.  Nathan Burak ended up better than anybody ever thought he was going to be coming out of HS.  Montell Marion was not seen as a "multi-time finalist" type of wrestler out of HS

 

Just a few examples.

Edited by VakAttack

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Sure. I guess it depends on how you want to define "already on that trajectory". I tend to think of the Top 10 P4P recruits as the guys who "should" be stars, but reasonable minds can disagree; I'll use my parameters since it's my post.

 

Neither Thomas Gilman nor Cory Clark were surefire superstars coming out of high school. Gilman was #16 and Clark #23 on D1CW. Good, but not bluest of blue chip type recruits, and both became perennial title contenders for their last three years of competition. Dan Dennis is probably the most famous example under the Brands brothers. Nobody thought Brandon Sorensen was going to be as good as he was, and definitely not that quickly, where he was top 4 as a freshman; he was D1CW's #27 recruit. Nathan Burak ended up better than anybody ever thought he was going to be coming out of HS. Montell Marion was not seen as a "multi-time finalist" type of wrestler out of HS

 

Just a few examples.

Don't even listen to this guy. He just wants us all to suck on Cael's nuts. He just tried to say practicing with Coleman Scott alone is better than Dan Dennis, Cory Clark, Gilman, Delgado, and Lee. He's ignorant and needs to just head back to his trailer in Scum U

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three time all american, big ten champion, 100+ career wins is now underachieving?

Depends on how you reckon it.  If you are an underclassman and loudly proclaim yourself and your teammate better than Ramos/McDonough, maybe.  If you are a walk on for Maryland, definitely not.

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Sure.  I guess it depends on how you want to define "already on that trajectory".  I tend to think of the Top 10 P4P recruits as the guys who "should" be stars, but reasonable minds can disagree; I'll use my parameters since it's my post.

 

 Neither Thomas Gilman nor Cory Clark were surefire superstars coming out of high school.  Gilman was #16 and Clark #23 on D1CW.  Good, but not bluest of blue chip type recruits, and both became perennial title contenders for their last three years of competition.  Dan Dennis is probably the most famous example under the Brands brothers.  Nobody thought Brandon Sorensen was going to be as good as he was, and definitely not that quickly, where he was top 4 as a freshman; he was D1CW's #27 recruit.  Nathan Burak ended up better than anybody ever thought he was going to be coming out of HS.  Montell Marion was not seen as a "multi-time finalist" type of wrestler out of HS

 

Just a few examples.

Dziewa.  

 

And your post above is solid.  Well done.

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Sure.  I guess it depends on how you want to define "already on that trajectory".  I tend to think of the Top 10 P4P recruits as the guys who "should" be stars, but reasonable minds can disagree; I'll use my parameters since it's my post.

 

 Neither Thomas Gilman nor Cory Clark were surefire superstars coming out of high school.  Gilman was #16 and Clark #23 on D1CW.  Good, but not bluest of blue chip type recruits, and both became perennial title contenders for their last three years of competition.  Dan Dennis is probably the most famous example under the Brands brothers.  Nobody thought Brandon Sorensen was going to be as good as he was, and definitely not that quickly, where he was top 4 as a freshman; he was D1CW's #27 recruit.  Nathan Burak ended up better than anybody ever thought he was going to be coming out of HS.  Montell Marion was not seen as a "multi-time finalist" type of wrestler out of HS

 

Just a few examples.

 

I think anybody in that top 30-40 are known contenders and if they achieve what could be reasonable expected it's not a shock or necessarily an indication of superior coaching. Now guys at say 75-100 becoming multi-time AAs is an improvement.

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Just curious (not trying to stir the pot), who all has Iowa brought up and turned into a star who wasn't already on that trajectory? I would think there are more examples of top level guys who came in and crapped the bed under the brands coaching than guys who came in as unheralded and shot for the moon. Jeva (cuz I can't remember how to spell his name), Moore and the older tsirtsis all come to mind right away when I think of top level recruits who didn't pan put under the brands bro's guidance.

Brent Metcalf is the ONLY 1 that was on that "trajectory" coming in.  This line of argument is probably the biggest stretch anyone on here has used to denigrate Brands and Iowa.  This argument is so inaccurate because one of the biggest knocks IS the fact that they haven't been recruiting the bluest of blue chips and HAVE been focusing on the guy that fits(ala Gable) and getting the most out of him.

 

Here are Iowa's Top 10 recruits under Brands:  That is only 5(2 of which were recruited to VTech originally) Top 10 recruits since he took over in the 2006-2007 season.

 

#2-Metcalf: DNW, 1st, 2nd, 1st.

#6-Murphy: DNW-Grade issues ended up at Iowa Central.

#8-Nate Moore:   A lot of issues held this guy up.  A bunch of his mat issues appeared to be strength related.  He was originally recruited/projected at 125.  Blaming Brands is a stretch, but I guess you could.

#4-Mike Evans 1-2, 6th, 6th, 6th.  Was right there in a really deep weight.  Many think he should have been a Finalist his Junior year.  Just ask Chris Perry.

#8-Mike Kemerer-3rd,?,?,?

 

Here are the AA's under Brands with their rankings and yearly results:

#1-Mark Perry-1st, 1st.  Only the years he wrestled for Brands were included.

n/a-Falck-8th, 6th, R12.  Only the years he wrestled for Brands were included.  He was ranked at the top of his weight class, but I can't find exact rankings before 2005.

n/a-Luedke-3rd.

#2-Metcalf-DNW, 1st, 2nd, 1st.

#11-Morningstar-1-2, 2-2, 3rd, 7th.

#19-Borschel-DNW, 3rd, R12, 1st.

#2-Fields-2-2, 5th.

NR-Keddy-1-2, 6th, 4th, 8th.

#24-Slaton-DNW, 2nd,DNS(Dennis), DNS(Dennis).

NR-Dennis-DNS(Slaton), 7th, 2nd.

NR-Erekson-INJ, 4th, 7th.

#115-Marion-DNS(Slaton), 2nd, 4th, 2nd.

#14-McDonough-1st, 2nd, 1st, R12.

#46-Gambrall-DNS, 3rd, 2-2, Injuries

n/a=Luke Lofthouse-DNS(Beatty), DNS(Beatty), 5th.

#15-St. John-4th, 1st, 2nd, 5th.

#10-Ramos-R12, 3rd, 2nd, 1st.

#17-E. Lofthouse-1-2, 7th, 5th, 1-2.

#19-Telford-5th, 4th, INJ, 5th.

#4-Evans-1-2, 6th, 6th, 6th.

NR-Burak-R12, 8th, 7th, 4th.

#23-Clark-5th, 2nd, 2nd, 1st.

#16-Gilman-DNS(Clark), 4th, 2nd, 3rd.

#27-Sorensen-4th, 2nd, 3rd, ?

#41-Meyer-DNS(Evans), DNS(Evans), 8th, R12.

#20-Brooks-DNS(Lofthouse), R12, 8th, 4th.

#8-Kemerer-3rd, ?, ?, ?

 

 

The top guys that left Iowa very early:  #6-Murphy, #8-Nate Moore and #15 Nate Skoniecsky.

 

Top guys that fell short of expectations:

 

Top 5-A. Tsirtsis-Had a strong career but only AA'd once(prior to Brands).  He went 52-17 under Brands taking 3rd and 4th at B1Gs.  Went 1-2 and 2-2 at NCAA's under Brands.

 

#40-Dan Leclere-38-15 record. Lost out on a year(VTech transfer) and had a strong first season but fizzled at NCAA's.  Never started again with Tsirtsis coming back the next season and then Marion taking 141 over.

 

#11-Nick Moore-75-33 record. Did not start his 1st sitting behind either St. John or Evans. Took 4th, 2nd and DNP at B1G's.  Went 1-2, 2-2 and 0-2 at NCAA's.

 

#12-Dziewa-84-26 record.  Did not start his 1st and 2nd seasons sitting behind Marion and Ballweg, respectively.  Took 5th and 2nd at B1G's and went 2-2 at both NCAA's.

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High school rankings are somewhat flawed by their very nature. Some kids wrestle a lot, or they wrestle very little nationally but come from a top h.s. program and the end result is they are awarded a higher ranking than their talent level. The opposite is also true. A Midwest kid might not wrestle a ton nationally, or he may come from a small school where his coaching was good but not great, and his ranking is stunted because of these situations. Maybe that kid with the 45 ranking is a top 2 or 3 guy in his weight in college once he gets better coaching/better strength training. 

 

Univ. of Iowa wrestling (or Illinois) hardly has to go begging for talent. Their results are what they earn/deserve. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Lol @ the moron comparing Iowa & PA wrestling.

 

There are numerous state qualifiers in PA who win titles in IA. It's not even close the instate talent.

 

That being said, Brands in the past has recruited slow footed guys and it's cost us. Now Cael typically has had more top 10 p4p guys in one year than we have had total...but yeah Cael really develops them better than TnT develop top 50ish guys.

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