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There must be two Flowrestling companies out there. I have never had an issue getting help from their support, they even cancelled one of my accounts when I accidently had two going, and the problem was fixed immediately. I'm not saying I haven't had them accidently take too much money from me, but when I politely emailed them, and was patient the issue was quickly resolved.

 

I think in our fast paced society we forget that things like internet are still developing. A streaming event depends on the viewer and the presenter (in the cases where the event doesn't have the best to work with for Flo. Perhaps this guy was maxing out his wi-fi and that caused the buffer, as I had a perfect stream for the entire 3 hours of viewing.

 

The internet is still developing? Sorry, but streaming live video is not a brand new technology. By now, reputable companies pretty well have it figured it out. Blaming the user's internet is a typical Flo response. When I had a subscription, I sometimes would try three different connections all with the same buffering.

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I know they pay OSU for their duals. Do not assume that they are just racking in the dollars without paying out broadcast rights. 

 

Well that's good enough for me. As long as the Universities who are putting the wrestlers on the mat get something I'm content, because I'm confident some of that money will go to the wrestlers' benefit.

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I'm one of those guys that picks up FLO PRO at the beginning of the season and drops it at the end.  I start with Super32 and the coverage of that tournament has been terrific IMO.  You get to see many of the coming national HS stars (and btw, Austin DeSanto got beat by Joey Silva in the finals).

Yes, I was frustrated by the outages in some really important broadcasts.  My hope is that FLO will address their technical problems and we will have more consistent coverage in future years.  

But when I can select any mat and any match in a tournament, and if I miss one, go back and watch it from the brackets, then I'm a happy camper.

FLO had a problem with on mat identification of weights, wrestlers and scores,  But that's been improved as well.

So I give FLO a pass for the most part.  I guess the Okie State-PSU match was a disaster.  Hopefully FLO will be prepared for the volume of subscribers next time they put on an event with that kind of pizzazz.  Still got to see Bo quiet the crowd, so all was well with me.

Looking at FLO as some sort of roadblock in the expansion of wrestling popularity in this country is kinda lame.  Where was that expansion going when there was no FLO?  

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Seriously? I honestly watched the World Team Trials live on my phone through crappy Indonesian 3G service on a boat in the middle of the Komodo National Park on a scuba trip.  The stream was pretty much flawless.  Watching live wrestling in one of the most remote locations on the planet is pretty freakin' cool.  All the Flo critics should probably step up and do better...but I doubt you will.

 

I had problems with the stream freezing several times. I had to log back in after being signed out by the site a few times. Overall, their stream for this event was much better than usual.

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My concern is NOT about the money Flo makes. My complaints are that they offer a refund publicly, then deny the refund privately.  That they now only offer an annual subscription which makes it completely unlikely that average sports fans will pay $150 to watch one event that may have captured their interest. This will surely hurt the growth of our sport by blocking out new interested sports fans. And finally, that their quality control is so lacking.

 

With the emergence of better smart phone cameras combined with social media platforms like Periscope, Youtube LIVE, and Facebook LIVE it's easy to establish a grass roots group of wrestling fans who can bring a live feed to social media. This will not only expand our fan base, but also engage the viewers with community discussion while the live event is being aired, and reward the broadcaster high growth with their social media follower base.  Also, from what I can see Periscope, Youtube and Facebook have less rebuffering and delivery problems that Flo apparently has on a routine basis.

Edited by skikayaker

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You need to understand that Flo's business/exit strategy is not reliant on quality customer service or a rapidly expanding customer base.

 

The strategy is to build a solid inventory of renewable contracts that give them exclusive rights to stream/broadcast and then sell out to a much bigger fish.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The internet is still developing? Sorry, but streaming live video is not a brand new technology. By now, reputable companies pretty well have it figured it out. Blaming the user's internet is a typical Flo response. When I had a subscription, I sometimes would try three different connections all with the same buffering.

 

I guess I wasn't clear that I meant wi-fi capabilities, and yes I believe that area is still developing. Why would Google fiber be making a big push, or other companies be trying to improve if there was nothing more to develop on the product. Streaming may not be a new technology but it still depends on bandwidth capabilities. The reason I mentioned the user's internet is because the only time I've had streaming issues (where it wasn't universal and Flo acknowledged the issue) was when I didn't have good wi fi and I knew it would be hit and miss. When I go to my in-laws in East Texas, I know the wi-fi will be hit and miss because of the location.

 

My concern is NOT about the money Flo makes. My complaints are that they offer a refund publicly, then deny the refund privately.  That they now only offer an annual subscription which makes it completely unlikely that average sports fans will pay $150 to watch one event that may have captured their interest. This will surely hurt the growth of our sport by blocking out new interested sports fans. And finally, that their quality control is so lacking.

 

With the emergence of better smart phone cameras combined with social media platforms like Periscope, Youtube LIVE, and Facebook LIVE it's easy to establish a grass roots group of wrestling fans who can bring a live feed to social media. This will not only expand our fan base, but also engage the viewers with community discussion while the live event is being aired, and reward the broadcaster high growth with their social media follower base.  Also, from what I can see Periscope, Youtube and Facebook have less rebuffering and delivery problems that Flo apparently has on a routine basis.

 

If the big issue is attracting fans, maybe we should do a study somehow of how many average sports fans will "sit in front of their computer" on a Saturday morning/afternoon to watch wrestling. We forget that the average sports fan that flips on the CBB WS or Lacrosse championships has paid for the event through their cable subscription.

Edited by gopher_fan_90

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If the big issue is attracting fans, maybe we should do a study somehow of how many average sports fans will "sit in front of their computer" on a Saturday morning/afternoon to watch wrestling. We forget that the average sports fan that flips on the CBB WS or Lacrosse championships has paid for the event through their cable subscription.

Exactly, no potential new fan interested in checking out wrestling will want to pay FLO $150 with their connection problems to watch an event out of sheer curiosity while having to sit in front of a computer. However, free social media interactive access to live feeds through Periscope, Youtube, and Facebook LIVE will open access to new fans, and reach out to a myriad of friends and family through individual social media networks. People can promote their live feed to their friends, family, and colleagues in addition to various online groups.  This would help expand wrestling exponentially, and at no cost to the consumer. #winwin

Edited by skikayaker

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Top five ways to stream your live video / audio for free on Facebook, Youtube and Periscope:

 

Top FIVE Ways to broadcast your live wrestling event for free:

https://kimgarst.com/5-ways-to-broadcast-live-on-facebook-on-any-budget

 

4 Ways you can broadcast your wrestling event LIVE:

http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/4-ways-to-broadcast-on-facebook-live-that-fit-any-budget/

 

Great software here:

http://hdvmixer.com/

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Exactly, no potential new fan interested in checking out wrestling will want to pay FLO $150 with their connection problems to watch an event out of sheer curiosity while having to sit in front of a computer. However, free social media interactive access to live feeds through Periscope, Youtube, and Facebook LIVE will open access to new fans, and reach out to a myriad of friends and family through individual social media networks. People can promote their live feed to their friends, family, and colleagues in addition to various online groups.  This would help expand wrestling exponentially, and at no cost to the consumer. #winwin

perhaps a better strategy than illegally pirating Flo's streams would be to share the Facebook Live streams and Twitter Periscope streams that Flo already puts out for free of the events they cover. It's usually one or two matches per event. 

 

there is also a ton of free content on the site every day. 

 

another thing you could do, if you pay for Flo Pro, would be to invite other friends and family members over to watch wrestling events. or you can pull up Flo's wrestling events on a computer, tablet or smart phone when you are at someone else's place, or even at a bar. 

 

there's also lots of great wrestling videos on youtube that you can access that have nothing to do with the Flo. 

 

all those would seem like better ideas than stealing via the illegal distribution of media, as is not just Flo that those kinds of actions hurt, but also the events Flo invests in and ultimately the athletes that participate in them. the same goes for Track and any other media company. 

 

but those are just suggestions. I leave up to everyone's individual consciouses to guide them. 

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perhaps a better strategy than illegally pirating Flo's streams would be to share the Facebook Live streams and Twitter Periscope streams that Flo already puts out for free of the events they cover. It's usually one or two matches per event. 

 

there is also a ton of free content on the site every day. 

 

another thing you could do, if you pay for Flo Pro, would be to invite other friends and family members over to watch wrestling events. or you can pull up Flo's wrestling events on a computer, tablet or smart phone when you are at someone else's place, or even at a bar. 

 

there's also lots of great wrestling videos on youtube that you can access that have nothing to do with the Flo. 

 

all those would seem like better ideas than stealing via the illegal distribution of media, as is not just Flo that those kinds of actions hurt, but also the events Flo invests in and ultimately the athletes that participate in them. the same goes for Track and any other media company. 

 

but those are just suggestions. I leave up to everyone's individual consciouses to guide them.

 

Hopefully you gave the same sermon to Flo last summer when they had their media credentials revoked by the USOC for publishing content that didn't have the rights to multiple times. It is hard to be sanctimonious about Flo, when they illegally post videos and also steal money from customers by charging for services that they fail to provide.

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perhaps a better strategy than illegally pirating Flo's streams would be to share the Facebook Live streams and Twitter Periscope streams that Flo already puts out for free of the events they cover. It's usually one or two matches per event. 

 

there is also a ton of free content on the site every day. 

 

another thing you could do, if you pay for Flo Pro, would be to invite other friends and family members over to watch wrestling events. or you can pull up Flo's wrestling events on a computer, tablet or smart phone when you are at someone else's place, or even at a bar. 

 

there's also lots of great wrestling videos on youtube that you can access that have nothing to do with the Flo. 

 

all those would seem like better ideas than stealing via the illegal distribution of media, as is not just Flo that those kinds of actions hurt, but also the events Flo invests in and ultimately the athletes that participate in them. the same goes for Track and any other media company. 

 

but those are just suggestions. I leave up to everyone's individual consciouses to guide them. 

No one is advocating stealing. Flo bought the rights to "some" events, not all events. And what they did with that exclusivity is make it unlikely that new average sports fans will access and engage with some of the top events in our sport.  That being said, there are legal issues being worked out in this area.  College sports is not treated the same as Pro Leagues like the NFL MLB NHL and NBA.  Secondly, since when did it come to pass that mom and dad can't take a video of their child's match? Now with streaming, since when did it come to pass that mom and dad can't stream their child's live match for their friends and family to enjoy, particularly those who can't come over and enjoy Flo's programming (as you suggested) because they live in various states?  Many of these venues are public spaces that don't involve stalking laws, and a host of other legal issues surrounding public recordings.

 

It's a complicated legal issue that will be litigated in a lot of different ways, much like Drones have, and other issues regarding trespassing and copyright as they intersect with new technologies.  One of the key factors here is non-commercial non-profit grassroots video capture and live streaming.

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Hopefully you gave the same sermon to Flo last summer when they had their media credentials revoked by the USOC for publishing content that didn't have the rights to multiple times. It is hard to be sanctimonious about Flo, when they illegally post videos and also steal money from customers by charging for services that they fail to provide.

yes I do every day I sermonize to the Flo bros. I pray they heed my words.

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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No one is advocating stealing. 

you are very much advocating stealing. whether Flo owns the rights to the events or someone else, it is very much theft that you are advocating. 

 

 

That being said, there are legal issues being worked out in this area.  

those legal issues have been settled, and it was decided that what you are advocating is thievery. 

 

 

Secondly, since when did it come to pass that mom and dad can't take a video of their child's match? 

they can, they just can't distribute it they way you are advocating without breaking the law. 

 

 

One of the key factors here is non-commercial non-profit grassroots video capture and live streaming.

Definitely a key factory and one that should indeed be considered.

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they can, they just can't distribute it they way you are advocating without breaking the law. 

 

 

 

That is questionable.  The NCAA lost a significant court case where it was decided the players own their likeness/name/etc and not the NCAA - this was former players suing for $ from the video games using their information. 

 

I suspect if this was ever litigated, the results would be similar.  Does Flo get a waver from every wrestler in a tournament ? Even if they did, I question the validity.  

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That is questionable.  The NCAA lost a significant court case where it was decided the players own their likeness/name/etc and not the NCAA - this was former players suing for $ from the video games using their information. 

 

I suspect if this was ever litigated, the results would be similar.  Does Flo get a waver from every wrestler in a tournament ? Even if they did, I question the validity.  

it's my understanding that this had more to do with licensing products derived from value created by the players, such as jerseys and video games, not the media rights. but happy to be corrected/clarified. 

 

I get it tho, my parents videotaped every sporting event I ever did, and shared it with any who was patient enough to watch. 

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That is questionable.  The NCAA lost a significant court case where it was decided the players own their likeness/name/etc and not the NCAA - this was former players suing for $ from the video games using their information. 

 

I suspect if this was ever litigated, the results would be similar.  Does Flo get a waver from every wrestler in a tournament ? Even if they did, I question the validity.  

One is a Video game where they were using the players likeness.

 

Flo pays the school to stream the events they do not need a waiver.  Does Bigten2go have college athletes sign a waiver....No.  

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One is a Video game where they were using the players likeness.

 

Flo pays the school to stream the events they do not need a waiver.  Does Bigten2go have college athletes sign a waiver....No.  

Agreed.  But they whether they school cab sell them exclusive rights to taping it is , to me, doubtful

 

The point was can I as a parent tape the same event and share it.  

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it's my understanding that this had more to do with licensing products derived from value created by the players, such as jerseys and video games, not the media rights. but happy to be corrected/clarified. 

 

 

 

Yes you are correct, The  NCAA  sold those rights, which they didn't have, to EA Sports.  I think the broadcast of events  my be an extension of that. 

 

I hope not because that will hurt wrestling more.  But if, as speculated, it was illegal for a parent to tape an event and share it. We will find out if it is ever enforced.

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Exactly, no potential new fan interested in checking out wrestling will want to pay FLO $150 with their connection problems to watch an event out of sheer curiosity while having to sit in front of a computer. However, free social media interactive access to live feeds through Periscope, Youtube, and Facebook LIVE will open access to new fans, and reach out to a myriad of friends and family through individual social media networks. People can promote their live feed to their friends, family, and colleagues in addition to various online groups.  This would help expand wrestling exponentially, and at no cost to the consumer. #winwin

I get it, your big thing is deliver a product with a free option to allow people that might potentially take the time learn how to love the sport access, but at the end of the day, these companies still need to make money. We use what we see the professional sports do and think that wrestling a "minor" sport can replicate it. If you have ever looked at international flights they aren't cheap, FLO has to cover those costs somehow, if we want the coverage. At what point is it ok to charge for an event? If you start doing free events, then the complaint will be "the OSU/Penn State dual was free, why can't I watch the WTT for free?". Yes, no one wants to pay 20 bucks for one streamed event, when you look at the month to month breakdown, it is 12.50 a month (5 dollars more than Netflix), and the other things that FLO offers are great tools into learning more about the sport. Athlete profiles, technique videos, etc... You aren't paying 150 Annual just for the stream, its everything else you get as well.

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I get it, your big thing is deliver a product with a free option to allow people that might potentially take the time learn how to love the sport access, but at the end of the day, these companies still need to make money. We use what we see the professional sports do and think that wrestling a "minor" sport can replicate it. If you have ever looked at international flights they aren't cheap, FLO has to cover those costs somehow, if we want the coverage. At what point is it ok to charge for an event? If you start doing free events, then the complaint will be "the OSU/Penn State dual was free, why can't I watch the WTT for free?". Yes, no one wants to pay 20 bucks for one streamed event, when you look at the month to month breakdown, it is 12.50 a month (5 dollars more than Netflix), and the other things that FLO offers are great tools into learning more about the sport. Athlete profiles, technique videos, etc... You aren't paying 150 Annual just for the stream, its everything else you get as well.

I'm a capitalist and understand the economics at play here.  Wrestling is more of a niche boutique product, not a mainstream netflix, therefore, FLO would likely have to charge more, unless they look at other working models, particularly like CBS All-Access, BTN2GO, and ESPN3. No one said it's not a tough business. However, instead of spending a $20-Million investor injection of cash on exclusive rights followed by exploiting their achieved monopoly on key events with pricing that alienates not so hard core wrestling fans who may like to check out our sport, they may want to practice a better business model.  CBS All-Access charges $14.95 per month with no commitments and offers all the sports they cover to the customer. Flocasts may want to consider offering a similar pricing structure where they charge $14.95 per month with NO COMMITMENTS and open up swimming, BMX, Track, Gymnastics, Fencing, whatever, to their customers for that one monthly rate.  Most people stay on for other seasonal sports that they cover and continue to pay the monthly rate, particularly when not feeling coerced to buy things they may not be interested in. Of course, in order to compete, Flo may want to consider offering quality that at least matches CBS All-Access, BTN2GO, or ESPN3 production. Fair is fair, competition is competition.

Edited by skikayaker

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yet you seem a bit fuzzy on the rule of law. 

I've researched this area of law, but I'm not a lawyer. My key background and businesses are politics and IT. As a host of the Scott Adams Show @scottadamsshow and owner of Red State Talk Radio @redstatetalk we have experts discuss issues just like this on a daily basis. Laws as they exist will be tested, and reworked.  I had posted that we've seen technology cross paths with existing laws with Drones and trespassing. We will see this  happen with copyright law, and personal videography using social media technology. My point mainly is that I want to see fair business practices, more access to new and larger audiences for wrestling, and shine a spotlight on this interesting area of event sharing.  Keep in mind that most college sporting events don't have copyright contracts that prevent parents from video taping, and/or streaming their child's performance whether it be swimming, ice skating, fencing, rowing, to broadcast over their social media for their friends and family to see.  Commercial vs private is a key factor. Football, basketball and other more commercial sports tend to have a lot more restriction than Lacrosse, rowing, and other more fringe sports.

Edited by skikayaker

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Regarding the game in question, EA Sports NCAA Football. It was a wildly successful series. Each year a new game would come out and sell millions of copies. I bought the game probably 5 or 6 times during the history of the game. It was wildly detailed. But there was a couple failed college football players who saw a chance to squeeze some bucks out of their careers before going back to McDonalds. Player's unions were being discussed at the time, and EA was scared ****less that thousands of money seeking college kids would come and sue for bucks for unauthorized use. So EA killed the series with the last title being NCAA Football 12. A black day in gaming history.

 

So stupid, and if I was a stockholder in EA I'd be asking some serious profit related questions. That game franchise was a license to print money. EA should have sent delegates to all NCAA schools and had all the kids sign a waiver. If they didn't, their image/number wouldn't be included. I bet 99% of the kids would happily sign. Furthermore regarding conference/school rights: EA could sponsor scholarship programs for those conferences. That's chickenfeed considering the profit to be made. That and the inducement of players seeing themselves in the game would make the schools happy, I think.

 

Problem solved.

Edited by TobusRex

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the Dilbert guy? hey nice bro. proud of you. 

 

I'm not here to judge. I used napster back in the day. even after it was explained to me how illegal it was. 

 

I presented some legal alternatives for promoting the sport and sharing the available content but you are free ignore them and continue advocating your decidedly illegal suggestions. the choice is yours!

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