straggler 65 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) so, molinaro who wrestled for a medal in rio is such less competition in his weight as compared to JB who did not wrestle for a medal in rio? come on... you get what you earn, right? some of you guys could take a lesson Come on yourself. Trying to rationalize a ridiculous system because you can find one or two examples is grasping. Of course it was going to hurt Dake in a third match. JB is a much tougher assignment than beating Molinaro. We really debating this? JB had not lost in the US since 2009 until tonight. I'll take a lesson. I think Rio is the lesson. US wrestling coddled JB, who lost a step, the world caught up and JB imploded. I was the only one on here who noticed. Bottom line (I am certainly no JB fan; sorry) if JB is the best he should not have any bye at all. He should wrestle the challenge tournament like everyone else. Period. We talk about the finals being the next day because that is at least a practical fix given how desperate US wrestling is for crumbs and stars, and how corrupting this is. One more thing. I have said over and over that Dake will not get a fair shake against JB on US soil. So this result does not surprise me. The system finds a way. Just the idea that it went to a third match brings the bye issue to the forefront again. Edited June 11, 2017 by straggler 1 tightwaist reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 2,093 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 there were 2 examples tonight... been many more in the past... dake should have won in vegas, but, he didn't... just like he didn't tonight... look, i get it... he's your guy... you keep carrying that torch... i wanted him to win tonight as well, but, he didn't... obli-di obli-da Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
straggler 65 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) there were 2 examples tonight... been many more in the past... dake should have won in vegas, but, he didn't... just like he didn't tonight... look, i get it... he's your guy... you keep carrying that torch... i wanted him to win tonight as well, but, he didn't... obli-di obli-da Absolutely should have won. Did win. But those magic passivity calls. The system is a cheat. That is not debatable. So you had two examples tonight? Great. Still remains very rare and we are talking about trying to depose a former gold medalist/favorite son, not just some guy. To pretend there is nothing wrong is absurd. There is no way to get around that it is needlessly imposing a physical disadvantage. Saying "but so and so won" is not a response. And it is apples and oranges. Let's see them beat JB. I have complained more about the bias/favoritism than the bye. Because it is blatant. But at least they could fix the bye issue. Edited June 11, 2017 by straggler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 370 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Well I think we could hold the mini tourney on a Thursday and hold the best of three series on Saturday. Giving the mini tourney champs a day to recover. Or hold the mini tourney one weekend and perhaps the best of three series the following weekend. Now I know it this way isn't perfect, but it might help solve some of these fatigue problems we are seeing. The downside of this is that it just might be too much of a financial or family burden and might not be doable. It would have to be something that all could agree on. 1 cangemi reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boconnell 1,623 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Bottom line (I am certainly no JB fan; sorry) if JB is the best he should not have any bye at all. He should wrestle the challenge tournament like everyone else. Period. Do you even realize you just described the US Open that JB also won. 3 spladle08, AllISeeIsBronze and Ari Gold reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newyorkwrestler 258 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 sour grapes... JB won because he deserved to win... Cox won because he deserved to win... Zain won because he deserved to win... Gilman won because he deserved to win... wash rinse and repeat... I don't think the wrestler who hits a sucker punch to the jaw and several eye pokes deserves to win 1 cangemi reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
straggler 65 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Do you even realize you just described the US Open that JB also won. No one actually thinks JB won that match. The bias was pretty blatant in that one. I keep saying JB gets favoritism. He does-in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
belushijo 9 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Second best thing behind the actual wrestling, is reading the inevitable sycophantic posts about why a guy shouldn't have lost. Edited June 11, 2017 by belushijo 1 killdozer reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
straggler 65 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Second best thing behind the actual wrestling, is reading the inevitable sycophantic posts about why a guy shouldn't have lost. Third best thing is watching diehard fans of a sport that is still on Olympic death watch not accept simple criticisms of a third-rate qualifying system. You create a crappy system then expect no complaints. OK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
belushijo 9 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Third best thing is watching diehard fans of a sport that is still on Olympic death watch not accept simple criticisms of a third-rate qualifying system. You create a crappy system then expect no complaints. OK. You're terribly confused as to why wrestling is not a popular sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmodium 2,220 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 JB is better than Dake and everybody knows it. Just be honest with yourselves. Dake literally coasted through the mini tournament. He has to do more to win matches. He scored two points in three 2nd periods last night? Not enough. He certainly don't do enough in vegas, either 1 Ari Gold reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boconnell 1,623 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Third best thing is watching diehard fans of a sport that is still on Olympic death watch not accept simple criticisms of a third-rate qualifying system. You create a crappy system then expect no complaints. OK. You are seriously confused here. You have no actual problem with the qualifying system. You just think Dake was cheated by a refereeing conspiracy. I won't even disagree with you the officiating was bad. But JB and Dake went through the exact same process to win the spot in the last 2 months. In the past Dake complained about the advantage JB had and JB had a huge advantage as a returning medalist. Many don't like that. It's a fair debate. But JB had no official advantage this time. He beat Dake on even footing in April, then beat him with the US Open advantage they both had access to in this calendar year. Taylor can complain about Cox having an advantage as a medalist. Dake can (and does) complain about officiating. Dake cannot complain about the qualifying system. Edited June 11, 2017 by boconnell 2 BigTenFanboy and pjm46 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TFBJR 464 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 i think wrestling against the absolute best the US has to offer is where the real toll is... they are typically waiting in the finals... again, there are too many examples of the best guy coming through the mini tournament and still beating who is sitting for me to ever complain that this system is patently unfair and biased... i'll leave that too the whiners and fan boi's... Dear LJB - The word is To. Whiners and Fan Bois? Apostrophe? Are you 12? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cangemi 228 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) This is nothing to do with what happened. It has everything to do with commen sense. can't see it? Unfortunately not everyone has commen sense. Must be blind.This format is so skewed. " Can't see it can't help you". Edited June 11, 2017 by cangemi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 4,481 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 I posted before Cox was injured that I thought Taylor looked tired. DT has a huge gas tank, but only so many matches in one day before anyone hits the wall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cangemi 228 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) If you want a fair answer to this format ask someone has nothing to do with wrestling. Give two options same day or following day. You will have your commen sense answer. Please try it. See what you will get. Edited June 11, 2017 by cangemi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cangemi 228 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Tbar I'm just all about getting our sport right. Pretty obvious for objective fans to see what took place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED 102 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Watch Dake's 3rd match against JB. He had absolutely nothing left strength-wise. Clearer than day. This tells me the system is not fair. Finals should be held a day later. As far as the matches go, given the system as it is currently structured, JB won fair and square. As for the eye pokes and punches, Dake should be using this to fire himself up. Somebody punches me, my natural reaction would be to come back at them that much harder so I might have the opportunity to inflict twice as much paing! Retribution should be a motivating factor. Dake looks to the refs far to often for help, taking him out of his own gameplan, which is exactly what JB is hoping for! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 Will be interesting to see what changes are made to the WTT format next year (if any) when International tourneys move to a 2 day format. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GockeS 533 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 im wondering how Dake could have been tired. someone tell me how many shots he took on the day. i counted 1 after his first takedown against burroughs. the rest was defense and counters. why should he be tired? and he didn't shoot again on burroughs until he was behind in the second match. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GockeS 533 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 punches? not really. dake walked in leading his head more often than not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GockeS 533 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 zain was able to do it. gilman was able to do it. i actually think it hurts JB. he needs that warmup match. just look at the end of his first match coming back to tie it. if Dake would attack he would have a better chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GockeS 533 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 and speaking of passivity how does Dake block an entire period and not get called... (2nd period first match) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KCMO2 673 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 and speaking of passivity how does Dake block an entire period and not get called... (2nd period first match) I felt the passivity calls were very inconsistent throughout the tournament. And the ref hitting both Cox and DT for passivity in the first minute in 2 of their 3 matches!?! That's a ref interjecting himself in a match between 2 of the top wrestlers in the world and potentially effecting the outcome, at a point when the calls weren't warranted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GockeS 533 Report post Posted June 11, 2017 i agree, the passivity depended on the ref it seemed like... but nary a mention or warning to dake for the whole second period of blocking/tieing/underhooking was bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
