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cangemi

They should wait a day to wrestle finals

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To the original post, it is absolutely ludicrous to not have the finals the next day. You can list a dozen examples of mini tourney winners getting the spot, but it doesn't change the logic.

 

Would the defenders of this practice also agree to this? Previous year World/Olympic champ gets bye to the finals of World/Olympic championship.

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I have my gripes, some founded, probably some unfounded. I think there is a ton of favoritism in the system, and that bye contributes to it. There is no question who US wrestling is pulling for, and indirectly at least this affects a very subjective scoring criteria. Burroughs himself admitted he has lost a step or two, which means he needs to resort to "tactics", tactics which I don't think he is going to get away with anymore against Russia, Iran, etc. So in my mind I keep noticing a pattern of questionable calls that always go in the same direction and unequal enforcement of the rules, ie bias, which when added to the qualifying format makes it very frustrating to observe.

 

But all that said, the stupidity of imposing a physical disadvantage on one competitor is indefensible. By the third match there is no way it was not a factor. I will likely always have gripes when I watch JB's matches; I think he is blatantly protected at this point by US wrestling and Dake always has his chances and let's Burrough's rule bending get to him too easily. But even if I have many screws loose, the format right now is a disservice to the competitors and the fans.   

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two points

1. i think JB would benefit from just wrestling a tourney. with no 2 of 3 for the championship

2. if Dake had won the open, they would be screaming JB fans were whining/crying had JB lost the WTT 

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calls that go a certain way?

yes, tell us how the blocking/underhooking Dake managed to avoid a passivity for the entire 2nd period of first match.

 

tell us how a man only takes one shot (before he was behind against JB) on the day ...and gets away with it.

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calls that go a certain way?

yes, tell us how the blocking/underhooking Dake managed to avoid a passivity for the entire 2nd period of first match.

 

tell us how a man only takes one shot (before he was behind against JB) on the day ...and gets away with it.

Wait! Dake wasn't hit with passivity this time out? Well that is a change from Vegas. It's going in the right direction. :)

Edited by straggler

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Two things here.  First of all, you weren't going against the top wrestlers in the nation or the world.  And second, this may be the way they do it at worlds and the Olympics, but all of the guys are wrestling.  They don't have 1 guy sitting out until the finals.  I understand giving the #1 guy a break, but not having to wrestle through the bracket is break enough.  Get the 2 top guys both wrestling fresh if you want to find the true #1.

 

I did wrestle against the best in the nation (I'll admit I never wrestled in a world level event though). Have you? I've wrestled 8+ matches in a day at National level events (junior and university - not WTT), and felt fine because I trained hard and was used to wrestling. Your second point is true that my competition also had that many matches, but honestly think it would make very little difference. To keep it completely fair, I admit it would be best to have the finals another day. I just don't think it would change the outcome. I think these are simply excuses. Plus these guys had to earn the bye, so it wasn't like they were just selected by a seeding committee 

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I did wrestle against the best in the nation (I'll admit I never wrestled in a world level event though). Have you? I've wrestled 8+ matches in a day at National level events (junior and university - not WTT), and felt fine because I trained hard and was used to wrestling. Your second point is true that my competition also had that many matches, but honestly think it would make very little difference. To keep it completely fair, I admit it would be best to have the finals another day. I just don't think it would change the outcome. I think these are simply excuses. Plus these guys had to earn the bye, so it wasn't like they were just selected by a seeding committee

 

 

Cox earned the bye based on his performance last summer. What other sport does this?

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Cox earned the bye based on his performance last summer. What other sport does this?

 

 

Maybe a better question is what other country does this?

 

I've heard that some Eastern bloc countries (yeah, I'm old) don't even have trials for weights with former medalists. They've already proven themselves so why risk someone unused to the world scene?

Our system is somewhere in between.

I'm not sure where I fall on this but I would guess this is some part of our thought process.

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Crazy,

 

Have a guy wrestle 3 full matches then come to wrestle three more. Let them break and have the finals the next day to have our best representative. Just seems so skewed to the guy waiting.

 

Give them the bye to finals, wrestle finals next day! Just my opinion. Dake was dead in the last match, too big a advantage

to overcome on a world champ! Needs to be fair play! 

 

 

Frank C

Totally agree. The point should be to find the best wrestler, period. If you want to give guys byes to the finals, fine, but let them wrestle when both guys are rested so you can actually see who is better. How can anyone possibly argue against having the finals on a different day?

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read

'wrestlers at the trials'

 

i am convinced our system is 1000x better than before.

and i agree with gimple

some countries'...even dare i say the russians...know who is best and protect them.

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 i agree with gimple

some countries'...even dare i say the russians...know who is best and protect them.

 

Why do you have to protect them if they're the best.  Everything changes from year-to-year, and last years or last Olympics best may not be the best now.  And if your "best" wrestler needs an advantage to win, then are you sure they're the best?

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Cox earned the bye based on his performance last summer. What other sport does this?

 

You are thinking mostly in terms of team sports. It is reasonable to assume that if a guy could win a world/olympic medal a year ago, he could do it again this year. Of course that doesnt always happen, but I would be willing to bet that being a world medalist the previous year a much better indicator of success than being a US open champion who did not medal previously. As Gimp and others pointed out, the Russian and others just pick their team. How many times have we seen guys get beat at WTT who probably would've medaled only to see the guy who beat them fall short because they aren't as good internationally. I don't like appointing the team, but I have no problem giving a small reward to those who earned it. 

Edited by Eagle26

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Small reward, they get bye and wrestle next day.

 

Huge reward same day

No... A huge reward would be they are simply appointed to the World team. I am fine with what you mentioned as the small reward... just pointing out that the current system is not a very big reward compared to what other countries do.

 

 

I feel like anyone saying Dake was negatively impacted are being disingenuous. He literally coasted through those 2(!) matches and then had a break of approximately 5 hours.

Exactly. How could anyone think an elite level wrestler like Dake would be tired 5 hours after 2 matches?! 

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