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Burroughs is a class act, he gave Dake all the credit in the world after the match even acknowledging how hard it must be for Dake to go from on top of the sport to not being able to make a team and yet still continuing to train. Not many champs acknowledge that about their competitors. The whining from the Dake crowd is complete sour grapes. Is Burroughs dirty ? I applaud him for hands to the face, and for being tactical. That's winners do, they do what they have to win. What do losers do ? They complain to the refs and complain about the system because they can't accept they aren't good enough. 

 

The scary thing for Dake supporters is by the time Burroughs bows out due to age Dake will also have lost a step. Think about it now, Burroughs has already lost a little step and he still has a quickness edge on Dake. As Dake ages, his lost step is going to have a much bigger impact on him and Dake's already getting up there in age. The Mark Hall's will very possibly be on top by the time Burroughs gives up his reign.

 

Burroughs was clearly the better wrestler today. How many more times did he get to the legs in on singles ? I think alot more. Outside of Dake's big 4 pointer, Burroughs was clearly superior. It's time for Dake fans to recognize the sample size is large enough. 

 

Dake outscored Burroughs something like 11-3 in the first period the first two matches and then got crushed in the second. I think this is something Dake needs to adjust too because the shut down tactic with a lead works against everyone else but not against Burroughs.

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Burroughs is a class act, he gave Dake all the credit in the world after the match even acknowledging how hard it must be for Dake to go from on top of the sport to not being able to make a team and yet still continuing to train. Not many champs acknowledge that about their competitors. The whining from the Dake crowd is complete sour grapes. Is Burroughs dirty ? I applaud him for hands to the face, and for being tactical. That's winners do, they do what they have to win. What do losers do ? They complain to the refs and complain about the system because they can't accept they aren't good enough. 

 

The scary thing for Dake supporters is by the time Burroughs bows out due to age Dake will also have lost a step. Think about it now, Burroughs has already lost a little step and he still has a quickness edge on Dake. As Dake ages, his lost step is going to have a much bigger impact on him and Dake's already getting up there in age. The Mark Hall's will very possibly be on top by the time Burroughs gives up his reign.

 

Burroughs was clearly the better wrestler today. How many more times did he get to the legs in on singles ? I think alot more. Outside of Dake's big 4 pointer, Burroughs was clearly superior. It's time for Dake fans to recognize the sample size is large enough. 

 

Dake outscored Burroughs something like 11-3 in the first period the first two matches and then got crushed in the second. I think this is something Dake needs to adjust too because the shut down tactic with a lead works against everyone else but not against Burroughs.

"Got crushed in the second." 

 

Bad calls aside, I think that has something to do with the challenge tournament. I do not think that is a coincidence.

 

So now illegal tactics are "winning." Until he wrestles outside the US and he no longer has the speed that it does not matter. Winning will quickly becomes losing.

 

You can accuse people of whining and frankly guilty as charged. Because there is clearly something to whine about. The set up of this tournament is insane and very unfair. And the bush league level of bias/favoritism this reflects as US Wrestling is so desperate in preserving what it deems as the best hope for a medal by creating a sham system is a scandal. I am not the only one who recognizes that consistent with the set up Burroughs gets every single call, at least to the 40/60 range and gets away with "tactics" that are downright dirty. 

 

All I know is that Dake was better in Vegas but the rules are so subjective the refs can determine the resuilt of any close match. And Burroughs is not allowed to lose those type of matches in the US. 

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Straggler, why don't you complain about DT losing to Cox.

 

I don't see how Dake's position is any different from Gilman's or Retherford's. They all went through the mini-tournament, and two out of three of them won the team spots. You argue that their respective opponents aren't on the same level of Burroughs, but they're not wrestling Burroughs. Each one of them have to beat the guy in front of them, which is a well-rested opponent.

 

I'm not even in favor of the system itself, but you've targeted Burroughs endlessly in the past that I've seen, I'm just asking why is it any different than the roada other wrestlers in other weight classes have to undertake.

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Kyle can't complain about the mini tournament because he only wrestled 2 matches and didn't seem to use lots of energy instead kinda a warm up.  Not like the time he wrestled Howe and went through a crazy tournament.  This was great to see JB come back and win.  I would of been happy to see Kyle make it to worlds too.  Kyle reminds me of Tsargush minus the dirty singlet pulling.  Kyle is awesome at defense and offense and its just one guy thats better than him.

 

Hats off to both wrestlers, Its better to see JB loose than blow throw KD like the Olympic Trials.,  This was so exciting, Kyle did a great job..

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"Got crushed in the second." 

 

Bad calls aside, I think that has something to do with the challenge tournament. I do not think that is a coincidence.

 

So now illegal tactics are "winning." Until he wrestles outside the US and he no longer has the speed that it does not matter. Winning will quickly becomes losing.

 

You can accuse people of whining and frankly guilty as charged. Because there is clearly something to whine about. The set up of this tournament is insane and very unfair. And the bush league level of bias/favoritism this reflects as US Wrestling is so desperate in preserving what it deems as the best hope for a medal by creating a sham system is a scandal. I am not the only one who recognizes that consistent with the set up Burroughs gets every single call, at least to the 40/60 range and gets away with "tactics" that are downright dirty. 

 

All I know is that Dake was better in Vegas but the rules are so subjective the refs can determine the resuilt of any close match. And Burroughs is not allowed to lose those type of matches in the US. 

 

See this is the problem for Dake fans. At some point your arguments don't hold water when you have 7 losses.  Some of the excuses, from being inexperienced at freestyle the first go around to then having some questionable calls go against him in the next three in very close matches. Actually led me to believe as well that Dake could take Burroughs out.

 

But with 2 more wins for Burroughs, and no questionable calls this time the case that Dake is just as good or better is not there anymore. 

 

Burroughs got called for hands to the face in one match, and he never went there again. Just like he didn't allow himself to get chest locked by Dake again when he was in a similar position. 

 

All excuses for Dake went out when you change weights just because of the challenge tournament, and then when you have a new opportunity to win and sit out you lose by wrestling conservative. 

Edited by matness

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Straggler, why don't you complain about DT losing to Cox.

 

I don't see how Dake's position is any different from Gilman's or Retherford's. They all went through the mini-tournament, and two out of three of them won the team spots. You argue that their respective opponents aren't on the same level of Burroughs, but they're not wrestling Burroughs. Each one of them have to beat the guy in front of them, which is a well-rested opponent.

 

I'm not even in favor of the system itself, but you've targeted Burroughs endlessly in the past that I've seen, I'm just asking why is it any different than the roada other wrestlers in other weight classes have to undertake.

One word: Fanboy.

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See this is the problem for Dake fans. At some point your arguments don't hold water when you have 7 losses.  Some of the excuses, from being inexperienced at freestyle the first go around to then having some questionable calls go against him in the next three in very close matches. Actually led me to believe as well that Dake could take Burroughs out.

 

But with 2 more wins for Burroughs, and no questionable calls this time the case that Dake is just as good or better is not there anymore. 

 

Burroughs got called for hands to the face in one match, and he never went there again. Just like he didn't allow himself to get chest locked by Dake again when he was in a similar position. 

 

All excuses for Dake went out when you change weights just because of the challenge tournament, and then when you have a new opportunity to win and sit out you lose by wrestling conservative. 

Never said once that Dake was better than Burroughs at freestyle. Have about folk and will stick to that. But Burroughs has the track record.

 

What I will say is that we are not getting a fair set up. That is indisputable. They are certainly close whether Burroughs is ultimately better or not. All I know is that in the first match before fatigue would likely set in Dake won. And at Vegas I and others thought Dake deserved to win. But realistically I just want a fair set up where we are not left to wonder what roll the Challenge tournament played in the outcome. Hardly too much to ask, especially as no other nation has a set up like this.

 

Sorry but there is no way to defend the current set up. No way around it.   Rationalize it to your heart's content. But fact is the only time Dake wrestled him in a square setting he outwrestled Burroughs at Vegas. 

Edited by straggler

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when dake went down.

burroughs was reaching in to pound the head and Dake was leading with his head ( like he did several times) and ran into it...

and he went down like he had been punched.

This is what happened. Burroughs may be getting a little too dirty for my taste, but this so called "punch" was certainly not intentional. You could see his hand wasn't in a closed fist or an open hand. It was in a "grabbing positon". No one intentionally hits someone like that

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