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Flying-Tiger

Pico Want's To Have His Cake And Eat It Too

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Pico is undoubtedly a better prospect than Lesnar was.  Lesnar was like a slighlty better version of Tim Tebow the baseball player.   BigTenFan must think Kimbo Slice was the second biggest prospect ever. 

 

If you equate Lesnar's prefight projection in MMA to that of what Tim Tebow is projected to do as a Baseball player I would say you're very wrong.

Tim Tebow is not expected to win the World Series.

Lesnar was expected to win the world title.

Kimbo Slice was not expected to contend for the world title upon entry into the MMA world. I don't understand how people seem to ignore this.

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Is this thread really coming to the point that if Puco doesn't finish the fight in one round, he's busted hype?

 

Also to clarify, Pico can't be UFC champion just yet because he's signed with Bellator, a completely different company in MMA. I'm not sure how long his contract is, but I assume he'll be with them for awhile since they signed him when he was 16... and if we're being honest, 155 lbs can be argued to be the most competitive division in both the UFC and Bellator. They're both shark tanks.

 

For people saying Pico has always been bigger... Both Pico and Zain stepped on the scale and made the weight they're supposed to. I've always been of the camp that if you made the weight needed, legally, then you deserve to contend in that weight class. It was like Conor McGregor fighting at 145 lbs and people complained he was too big; the man made the weight killing himself to do it and dominated, it's his right to do so. I am pretty sure he can't make 65KG again because he had specifically been training for MMA in a completely different weight class.

 

As for Lesnar, he really was an experiment... A physical specimen from professional wrestling with a huge notoriety brought over to UFC in the weakest division at the time. He was, for all intents and purposes, a cash cow.

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As for Lesnar, he really was an experiment... A physical specimen from professional wrestling with a huge notoriety brought over to UFC in the weakest division at the time. He was, for all intents and purposes, a cash cow.

 

I dont disagree with this at all. It doesnt change that Lesnar's prefight projection, thus him as a prospect, was to immediately contend for the world title.

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If you equate Lesnar's prefight projection in MMA to that of what Tim Tebow is projected to do as a Baseball player I would say you're very wrong.

Tim Tebow is not expected to win the World Series.

Lesnar was expected to win the world title.

Kimbo Slice was not expected to contend for the world title upon entry into the MMA world. I don't understand how people seem to ignore this.

Tebow is an low-A player.  Lesnar was a career AAA player called up to the show for a depleted team.  Pico is like a no. 1 overall pick. 

 

UFC was just looking for fresh bodies for that pathetic weight division. 

Edited by LemonPie

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Tebow is an low-A player.  Lesnar was a AAA player called up to the show for a depleted team.  Pico is like a no. 1 overall pick. 

 

Thats one way to spin it. Heres a less skewed and more objective look.

 

Tebow - Minor League player

Lesnar - Expected to win World Title

Pico - Possibly most talented rookie (skill wise)  ever to come into the sport, but not expected to be in the world title scene right now.

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I think sometimes fans think that these guys hold bigger grudges against each other than they actually do. I'm sure Zain doesn't like that he is 0-6 against a guy like Pico, just like I'm sure Ness isn't happy he was up 9-0 against the kid then lost the match, because they are both competitors. That doesn't mean that they hate each other or Zain would be mad that DT has trained with Pico and is going to watch his fight. These guys for the most part realize someone is gonna lose and some is gonna win. Its funny that us as fans get more worked up about it, because it doesn't actually affect our lives like it does theirs.

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Let me say how proud I am of this thread. I knew it had 10 page potential but the tangent arguments on wether Pico is the greatest MMA prospect of all-time was a pleasant surprise. So on the eve of Mr. Pico's first MMA fight against Zach "the salesman" Freeman, lets make a run at 20 fellas. I'll personally be pulling for the underdog, but I don't give him much a chance considering he's been training at Planet Fitness in between his shifts at Radio Shack. 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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There are multiple definitions to the word prospect. What matters is the context in which it's being discussed. And in the context of how it is being discussed, there is nothing FACT about "prospect", no matter how big the letters are typed or how often the word is used. "Prospect" it all about opinion. 100% subjective opinion.

 

Now if to play along....if biggest prospect in mma means fastest track to title, then yes Brock Lesnar was expected to compete for the title faster than anyone else entering real mma (that stuff in hero/Japan was as scripted as WWF). Although it was not something he earned through a competitive field. It was written in for him because of his pay per view draw. No way to dispute that logically. The heavy evidence to show is that he had a 1-1 record against two guys on the down sides of their career that "earned" his title shot. That doesn't happen with anyone else, and it can't be argued. Even Anderson Silvia even had to win his first fight before getting a title shot..

 

The context of "prospect" in this argument is completley related to ability, not WWF pay per view numbers. Everyone here on this forum, and everyone talking about Pico as a prospect knows that and knows that's the context of "prospect".

 

While I follow mma quite closely, i don't spend a whole lot of time studying fighters before they "break through", unless it's been someone I know and I follow them wherever they go, but generally speaking no, and with that I can't really give my opinion on how big of a prospect pico. I have seen him wrestle a lot. I have read about his boxing and Pankration experience. I have read about what a lot of athletes and trainers who have worked with him have said of him.

 

The VAST majority of those of who MMA is their daily bread: athletes, the trainers who train the athletes, the promoters who make the matches, the journalists who cover them all, the vast majority of them, across the board, believe this kid is the best "prospect" the sport has ever seen. That carries more weight than anything in these 15 or however many pages, including WWE pay per views.

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Connor McGregor would hit Pico with that straight left and knock him out the same way he knocked Jose Aldo out. 

 

LOL.... last I heard McGregor isn't doing MMA but is instead to get beaten up by Mayweather in basically an exhibition for Mayweather and a good payday for both. Heck I'd get beaten up by either guy for a good payday. 

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Just because pico may be the most well rounded prospect ever, does not make him the best prospect ever.  Jon Jones was the best prospect ever given the enormous potential that he had due to his other worldly athleticism, length, and strong wrestling background. Jones just didn't get the hype that Pico has gotten. When you analyze how good a prospect is, though, it's critical to not just look at how skilled they are, but also the potential that they have to improve.  

 

I'd say Pico is one of the best prospects ever, as well as one of the most hyped. Jones was just better, and the tape doesn't lie. 

 

 

You also have to knock Jones for character issues.   Multiple kids out of wedlock, a big phony christian act, and really a poor attitude (incredibly giant ego and arrogance).   That cuts into the total package.   Will he one day blow it and get busted for drugs?   Commit a few felonies?   Fail PED tests?   You never know what the future holds, but those types of things matter.        You look at Pico and he is squeaky clean and from every account I've heard, just an absolutely nice, down to earth, family type person.    The whole package matters.   

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Good food for thought, Fanta.  How can you be too old for wrestling and successful at MMA?

Dan Cormier, for example.  He is champion of the UFC.  If he made the same money in wrestling that he makes in MMA, would he be World champion?  Doubtful - Sports or sports entertainment?

 

 

MMA is loaded with inferior athletes to world level freestyle wrestling.    It happens all the time.   Wrestlers pass their prime and are no longer trending up, thus they retire and try MMA and sky rocket up the charts.     Wrestling is exponentially more difficult at the upper echelon than MMA.   It isn't even close.     

 

A sick,aging past his prime Cormier is 1 loss to another wrestler short of an undefeated MMA career and he's the reigning world champion.   Ben Askren undefeated multi promotional champion and trending up, this despite unable to make it out of the 2nd round in the Olympics.    Randy Couture and Dan Henderson  fighting for championships past their mid 40's long after they were way too old to compete.  Brock Lesnar not exactly a world beater in wrestling (solid NCAA champion wrestler) tries NFL can't make it, goes to WWE, becomes a house hold name, enters UFC as a mere rookie and by pro fight #4, he's the world champion.   He goes on to beat two other world champions before  falling ill and really declining physically.   He fizzles out and retires.   5 years later he returns to UFC and dominates a top 5 UFC contender who had recently challenged for the world title.    

 

 

It's just a lower level in UFC  that allows these past their prime wrestlers to go right in and compete for championships.   There are many more examples out there, this just a quick list of some of the more well know guys.   

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BigTime -- I get your point. I think it is reasonable.

 

Go to average joe on street and state:

 

Prospect #1: has certain attributes that cause people to think he will be a world champion very quickly.

 

Prospect #2: has several attributes that cause people to think he will be a world champion but will take a bit and is starting off in a less competitive division. He is expected to move to the best division and win that but it will take some time.

 

Prospect 2 is much younger than prospect 1 and is considered to have certain skills that are better. Prospect 1 has a more limited set of attributes that give him advantage over his likely opponents in the near term.

 

Which is the better prospect? I can see a fair number of folks picking #1. Others would pick 2.

 

I think he MMA press has a point and are focused on a young person training for MMA finally getting to MMA and discredit the path given to Lesnar. Not pure enough.

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LOL.... last I heard McGregor isn't doing MMA but is instead to get beaten up by Mayweather in basically an exhibition for Mayweather and a good payday for both. Heck I'd get beaten up by either guy for a good payday.

 

Yep. Everyone in MMA or boxing exhibitions is doing it for the money. Good bet Mayweather dances to a DEC.

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MMA is loaded with inferior athletes to world level freestyle wrestling.    It happens all the time.   Wrestlers pass their prime and are no longer trending up, thus they retire and try MMA and sky rocket up the charts.     Wrestling is exponentially more difficult at the upper echelon than MMA.   It isn't even close.     

 

A sick,aging past his prime Cormier is 1 loss to another wrestler short of an undefeated MMA career and he's the reigning world champion.   Ben Askren undefeated multi promotional champion and trending up, this despite unable to make it out of the 2nd round in the Olympics.    Randy Couture and Dan Henderson  fighting for championships past their mid 40's long after they were way too old to compete.  Brock Lesnar not exactly a world beater in wrestling (solid NCAA champion wrestler) tries NFL can't make it, goes to WWE, becomes a house hold name, enters UFC as a mere rookie and by pro fight #4, he's the world champion.   He goes on to beat two other world champions before  falling ill and really declining physically.   He fizzles out and retires.   5 years later he returns to UFC and dominates a top 5 UFC contender who had recently challenged for the world title.    

 

 

It's just a lower level in UFC  that allows these past their prime wrestlers to go right in and compete for championships.   There are many more examples out there, this just a quick list of some of the more well know guys.   

 

The problem with Bellatore is that the have a lot guys that never had a prime in any sport. Looking at the MMA rankings, is surprising just how thin their weight classes are. MMA minor league is an accurate description compared to UFC. Shame because I am not a Dana White fan. 

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You also have to knock Jones for character issues. Multiple kids out of wedlock, a big phony christian act, and really a poor attitude (incredibly giant ego and arrogance). That cuts into the total package. Will he one day blow it and get busted for drugs? Commit a few felonies? Fail PED tests? You never know what the future holds, but those types of things matter. You look at Pico and he is squeaky clean and from every account I've heard, just an absolutely nice, down to earth, family type person. The whole package matters.

Give Pico some time. A few too many knocks to the head and I won't be surprised if he starts tossing his girlfriend or boyfriend on on a pile of assault weapons. Edited by Chingadiculous

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