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Flying-Tiger

Pico Want's To Have His Cake And Eat It Too

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the person who invented the sport can't logically be a prospect......

I wouldn't say Royce invented the sport, but I would say it's hard to say anyone who was there close to the beginning of a sports development could be called a prospect.

 

 

Rickson Gracie basically came up with the concept of UFC to highlight the skill of BBJ to America and the family was looking to expand their business. Helio,the father, decided to give the much younger Royce the right to be the first to showcase their families skills and became the face of fighting, rather than giving it to Rickson or one of the other more experienced family members. . Helio felt the more baby face look of Royce and his much smaller fight record would sell the value of BBJ as the UFC grew. Ricksons had a huge undefeated record and his rougher style of fighting. Rickson would have likely won too in dominate form. However, it wouldn't have been as inspiring as what Royce did, nor did Helio feel Rickson would be as camera friendly or have the longevity that Royce did.

 

So technically the dad invented a style used to dominate easily UFC. Older brother Rickson helped develop the UFC competition. Younger brother Royce became the face of BBJ and UFC in America after his UFC win.

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They didn't really beat em up persay. They just hugged the enemy really hard until they passed out. A win is a win!

If by hugging you mean taking a limb the wrong direction and holding on far after the guy taps.  Or non-stop liver kicks from the guard.

 

Royce was a mean dude who enjoyed inflicting pain and damage in those early UFCs.  He wasn't just a technique guy practicing an art.

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That was NHB.    There haven't been very many Gracie prospects highly regarded for MMA.    

That's true.

 

All of the kids mainly teach, especially in Torrance at Rorion's.   All of the kids make so much money now just by teaching that there's no point to fight.

 

Back in the day, they wouldn't let you enter any of the big tournaments because they had to be part of Rorion's "association".  That basically meant that all of the top tier BJJ schools weren't allowed to compete against any of the students from Rorion's academy(which is why I left).  This was back when I'd go to the Pan Am Championships in Irvine(which were put on by Joe Morierria) and see ALL of the other schools in the US(which were basically in CA and Texas-The Machados) compete and the top Brazilian teams would come as well.  Hell, I'd see Rickson, Ralph, Renzo, Ryan, Wallid Ismael, Carlos Barretto, Vitor Belfort, Conan Silveira,, Mario Sperry, Alan Goes, Rigan Machado, Jean Jacques Machado, Igor Zinoviev, Kimo, Gene Lebelle, John Lewis, Andre Pedineras and a lot more.  All of the Carlson Gracie team used to show up because they had set up a school in Whittier before they all disbanded and Carlson moved to Chicago.

 

The Rorion school of BJJ mainly focused on NHB techniques and all of the others did to an extent, but focused more on sport BJJ.

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26 pages of Aaron Pico, in this thread alone.  There are other threads as well.  His MMA debut was clearly not news in the wrestling world.

I did not even know he was fighting.I just happened to go on the espn site and and it was a big front page story, "greatest mma prospect of all time", etc. 

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Aaron Pico himself. According to a few articles and analysts Pico briefly lost consciousness.

 

 

From the choke or punch?     Choked out i can believe, knocked out I did not see but admittedly I haven't followed up with the bout since it happened.    

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Yes, from the choked.

 

He took a good shot, he shook it off and immediately got caught in the choke.   I like that he held on until the lights were going out (and did go out) before signaling for the stop via tap.    The bout certainly delivered fireworks.   There's no denying that.  

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He took a good shot, he shook it off and immediately got caught in the choke. I like that he held on until the lights were going out (and did go out) before signaling for the stop via tap. The bout certainly delivered fireworks. There's no denying that.

He went out, recovered and then tapped out? Or he tapped out while he was unconscious?

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He took a good shot, he shook it off and immediately got caught in the choke.   I like that he held on until the lights were going out (and did go out) before signaling for the stop via tap.    The bout certainly delivered fireworks.   There's no denying that.

 

This has got to be the most positive and pro Pico analysis of the fight I've read so far.

What do you mean delivered fireworks? For me it was like... the wick of the fireworks fizzled out before reaching the fireworks.. I was rooting for Pico and at the very least wanted to at least see him land a few good shots or a nice takedown/scramble. This fight couldnt have been more one sided. It was also a bust in its entertainment value... for me atleast..

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BTFB

 

It delivered fireworks for the anti Pico contingent.    Surely you haven't missed the celebrating on this forum and others.

 

There was a knocked down (that's fireworks) there was a choke out (that's fireworks) and the bout ended by finish inside 25 seconds (more fireworks).    

 

There's absolutely nothign positive there for Pico, other than fighting through the knock down and not immediately surrendering.  My post should not be taken meaning anything else.  

 

If the above were not fireworks, how would you categorize the events that led to  delirium following the upset loss?    

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BTFB

 

It delivered fireworks for the anti Pico contingent.    Surely you haven't missed the celebrating on this forum and others.

 

There was a knocked down (that's fireworks) there was a choke out (that's fireworks) and the bout ended by finish inside 25 seconds (more fireworks).    

 

There's absolutely nothign positive there for Pico, other than fighting through the knock down and not immediately surrendering.  My post should not be taken meaning anything else.  

 

If the above were not fireworks, how would you categorize the events that led to  delirium following the upset loss?

 

Ahh. Ok fair enough and thanks for the clarification.

Yes from that point if view it did set off fireworks, but if you think about it with the amount of hype that was given by Bellator how could the masses not respond in that manner. We've been told over and over how he was the next big thing, and he was favored about 10 to 1 over Freeman. Personally i dont think it was fair for Pico to be put in that position in the first place.

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Well first off one must consider most MMA fans are casuals and don't know much better.   And in this case specifically, the wrestling world seems to mostly resent Pico for either beating up their favorites while much younger than them or for not going the route they feel one should go (Cejudo got the same cold shoulder).     That all created a scenario where any effort short of expectations would be ridiculed.    The true MMA fun understands what a difficult situation Pico was placed into and that those types of things happen.   It does nothign to change what he is or what he might become.      The type of competitor he is, this will only fuel his drive to reach his goals.    Take his wrestling for example.   He took losses along the way and he even had a couple of bad losses.    He's down 9-0 at trials and what does he do?   He makes it to the 3rd bout of the finals.   This while still a teenager.     I'm not a huge fan of MMA, but I find myself involved in it due to my back ground and connections to many of the guys in the industry.  I wish nothing but the best for Pico and I don't see much reason to believe he'll fall short of world championships.      He's' that good.  

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Well first off one must consider most MMA fans are casuals and don't know much better.   And in this case specifically, the wrestling world seems to mostly resent Pico for either beating up their favorites while much younger than them or for not going the route they feel one should go (Cejudo got the same cold shoulder).     That all created a scenario where any effort short of expectations would be ridiculed.    The true MMA fun understands what a difficult situation Pico was placed into and that those types of things happen.   It does nothign to change what he is or what he might become.      The type of competitor he is, this will only fuel his drive to reach his goals.    Take his wrestling for example.   He took losses along the way and he even had a couple of bad losses.    He's down 9-0 at trials and what does he do?   He makes it to the 3rd bout of the finals.   This while still a teenager.     I'm not a huge fan of MMA, but I find myself involved in it due to my back ground and connections to many of the guys in the industry.  I wish nothing but the best for Pico and I don't see much reason to believe he'll fall short of world championships.      He's' that good.

 

While I agree mostly with all this, you can't really fault the casual viewer who quite honestly makes up the bulk of most viewership and it's not exclusive to MMA. If anyone or anything is given a huge promotional push and does not come out as an initial success right off the bat, it's going to receive a huge "I told you so" from the masses.

 

As for you're analysis of Pico as a competitor, this skills and ability is all there. My only concern with him being able to become a world champion is his history of leaving things unfinished to move on early to the "next level." What I mean by that is Pico left his high school career "unfinished" before hitting his peak to go to the "next level" which was the international scene. He then leaves his international career very much unfinished before accomplishing what he really set out to do. I know that there was a specific timeline associated with Pico's advancemment, but it wouldn't at all surprise me if Pico left MMA altogether before reaching his pinnacle to try/do something else and he would consider being at the "next level."

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Good point there.    If he leaves early, then of course all bets are off.   A guy as talented and driven as him could potentially find a third interest he's world class at.  Wouldn't surprise me one bit.  He's only 20, he might return to wrestling, who knows.     

 

In terms to my comments above about the casual fans, that's just pointing to what i think is going on here.   No judgment on them, I know they really don't know or see the whole picture.   These are the people who UFC sold Ronda Rousey to and convinced them she could beat men.    I don't put much stock into their input.       They spend money of the sport and it makes for lots of clicks on social media posts so it has its place.   If Makhov ever makes his debut for UFC, I'm excited to see what he can do.   With the division so thin UFC heavyweight, he could potentially make some serious noise quickly.    These guys are debuting in the big leagues, they're that coveted by the promoter.    

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