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Flying-Tiger

Pico Want's To Have His Cake And Eat It Too

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I don't agree Jones was a better prospect. Not even close. He was not a better grappler and by his own admission was a far inferior striker (Jones has openly talked about his biggest adjustment to fighting being striking, which ironically is now a strength). He was and still is a freak athlete, but that alone doesn't make you the best prospect ever.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I can buy in to Jones as a candidate and for the reasons you outlined.

 

however, are paper, Jones = JUCO champ. Pico = Cadet WC, 2x Junior World Medalist, Olympic Alternate, proven boxing and pankration skills.

 

you make a good point in evaluating talent. and tbh, i'm just telling you what has been written by mma journalists. (i'm not really that dialed in to it enough to prove or disprove. i'll take their word for it although i'd venture to say that don't dual 'tool assessments' when gauging ability as much as they look at resumes.

 

there is a point to be made between resume vs talent evaluation. but at the end of the day, there's much more anticipation for pico. and even if it comes with a degree of 'hype' there are tangible reasons for it. 

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I don't agree Jones was a better prospect. Not even close. He was not a better grappler and by his own admission was a far inferior striker (Jones has openly talked about his biggest adjustment to fighting being striking, which ironically is now a strength). He was and still is a freak athlete, but that alone doesn't make you the best prospect ever.

 

Our disagreement is about the definition of what makes a prospect. Pico is definitely way more polished now in striking than Jones was prior to his debut. His wrestling credentials are also better. However, potential and ceiling are critical components of how most people grade prospects.  In those components, athleticism is very important.

 

It would be like somebody saying that Bryce Harper was the best prospect in baseball history.  Sure, he was probably the most hyped...and he has definitely been a great baseball player.  He still wasn't the best prospect ever though. The same is true for Pico.

 

 

 

I can buy in to Jones as a candidate and for the reasons you outlined.

 

however, are paper, Jones = JUCO champ. Pico = Cadet WC, 2x Junior World Medalist, Olympic Alternate, proven boxing and pankration skills.

 

you make a good point in evaluating talent. and tbh, i'm just telling you what has been written by mma journalists. (i'm not really that dialed in to it enough to prove or disprove. i'll take their word for it although i'd venture to say that don't dual 'tool assessments' when gauging ability as much as they look at resumes.

 

there is a point to be made between resume vs talent evaluation. but at the end of the day, there's much more anticipation for pico. and even if it comes with a degree of 'hype' there are tangible reasons for it. 

 
 
I don't take any issue with flosports calling Pico the greatest MMA prospect ever. You should do that to generate clicks.  He's not a wrestler anymore though, so why not post it on FloMMA?
Edited by Billyhoyle

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I disagree that Jones's ceiling and athleticism are so superior to Pico's credentials that he is clearly a better prospect. Pico can't even legally drink yet. He isnit yet a fully grown man. His ceiling is extremely high. He may not be as quick and explosive as Jones, but in MMA, cardio is arguably even more important as an athletic trait, and Pico has insane cardio.

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When is the last time Pico has competed in boxing event? As far as I can tell from his bio, he hasn't won anything since he was 12 years old. If he is such an elite boxer, why hasn't he competed in the actual golden gloves division (16+)? 

 

Are you and that other guy who used to trash Pico related? Pee in your Wheaties or something? It is not quite as weird as that other guy but closing in.

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Pico has the credentials to back himself up. His pedigree is as accomplished as they come, in terms of being a prospect. For those pointing out his Pankration and Golden Gloves accomplishments were back when he was 12/13, Pico did focus on wrestling in CA and freestyle right around 14 (won CA state as a freshman). He also trains at AKA with Daniel Cormier, Cain, Luke Rockhold, and Khabib (arguably the best grappler in UFC today with Demian Maia). There were also rumors he knocked out Josh Thompson in sparring.

 

We don't know if Pico has a glass chin, if he's able to utilize kicks, or if he is comfortable enough on the ground after taking someone down... But we'll find out soon enough. He was argued to be the first kind of 'complete' MMA-trained prospect heading into professional fighting.

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on what planet was brock a bigger prospect?

 

it wasn't even anticipated that he would do mma and didn't for 8 years after graduating from college, and at age 30.

 

you're not the most anticipated MMA prospect ever by virtue of being a a 1x NCAA champ who went to the WWE for 7 years.

 

 

You asked who wad a bigger prospect before his first fight. Brock Lesnar absolitely was a bigger prospect than Pico. Lesnar was expected to contend for a world championship right off the bat. He was also much more hyped. Ask a random person on the street if they heard of Picos upcoming fight. Only MMA fans will know what youre talking about. Before Lesnar made his MMA debut the random person on the street knew aboit Lesnars fight.

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Pico's boxing IQ is ridiculously high!  I grew up boxing watching some of the best.  Philly is jam loaded with talent.  But when you see Pico shadow box, it's way ahead of most of the MMA athletes that look like ROBOTS.  

 

Pico's hands don't look robotic whatsoever.  They're extremely fluid and flowing, like they should be.  Pico is a wrestler at heart but I can bet you he will go in there with the intent to lay someone out like an oriental rug.  Can't wait to watch him, he'll do great and all of your undies will be unbunched.

 

 

 

 

I remember watching one of the greatest Mexican boxers of all-time Ricardo "El Finito" Lopez.  The only undefeated world champ at 51-0.  His fights were a thing of beauty.....WOW!

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Pico's boxing IQ is ridiculously high!  I grew up boxing watching some of the best.  Philly is jam loaded with talent.  But when you see Pico shadow box, it's way ahead of most of the MMA athletes that look like ROBOTS.  

 

Pico's hands don't look robotic whatsoever.  They're extremely fluid and flowing, like they should be.  Pico is a wrestler at heart but I can bet you he will go in there with the intent to lay someone out like an oriental rug.  Can't wait to watch him, he'll do great and all of your undies will be unbunched.

 

 

 

 

I remember watching one of the greatest Mexican boxers of all-time Ricardo "El Finito" Lopez.  The only undefeated world champ at 51-0.  His fights were a thing of beauty.....WOW!

 

The problem with shadow boxing... shadows dont punch back.

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Are you and that other guy who used to trash Pico related? Pee in your Wheaties or something? It is not quite as weird as that other guy but closing in.

Pee in your Wheaties, really, what are you a child? If you don't agree with me why don't you make an effort to refute what I said . You just come off as inarticulate or mentally lazy making comments like that. It's rather embarrassing...and weird.

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Our disagreement is about the definition of what makes a prospect. Pico is definitely way more polished now in striking than Jones was prior to his debut. His wrestling credentials are also better. However, potential and ceiling are critical components of how most people grade prospects.  In those components, athleticism is very important.

 

It would be like somebody saying that Bryce Harper was the best prospect in baseball history.  Sure, he was probably the most hyped...and he has definitely been a great baseball player.  He still wasn't the best prospect ever though. The same is true for Pico.

 

 

 

 
 
I don't take any issue with flosports calling Pico the greatest MMA prospect ever. You should do that to generate clicks.  He's not a wrestler anymore though, so why not post it on FloMMA?

 

 

lol. nice backhanded compliment.

 

the 'best mma prospect ever' is not a moniker created by flo. it's been written and generally accepted by all mma media.

 

as far as why we run things on ex wrestlers - we do it with Chael, Uriah, Ed Ruth, Tyrell, Garbrandt, etc, etc. and we always will. 

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You asked who wad a bigger prospect before his first fight. Brock Lesnar absolitely was a bigger prospect than Pico. Lesnar was expected to contend for a world championship right off the bat. He was also much more hyped. Ask a random person on the street if they heard of Picos upcoming fight. Only MMA fans will know what youre talking about. Before Lesnar made his MMA debut the random person on the street knew aboit Lesnars fight.

 

"big name" does not mean better prospect.

 

if lebron james said he was going mma right now, would he be a better prospect?

 

lesnar was in show biz for 7 years between wrestling and mma. he had no history of striking jiu jitsu/pankration. he entered a horrible division and finished 5-3-1. his mma skills/potential were no where close to pico's. 

Edited by Husker_Du

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MMA is ****ing awful.  I can't imagine what kind of caveman you have to be to watch a pankration bout.   Whatever the **** that is. Lock the thread.  

 

Plus, it's disrespectful to Pat Downey to call Pico the best prospect

Edited by LemonPie

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It honestly is looking to be a lot of you guys are ripping on Pico because of his statements regarding Zain. I don't even like his particular statements on that topic, but if you follow a shred of MMA, you'd know Pico is a huge deal coming in. He's training with some very elite MMA fighters, there's been nothing but praise coming from the fighters he's worked with. He has what it takes, from what we can see.

 

There's much more going on with going to Bellator instead of UFC, and contractual differences and fighter's pay are really important.

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"big name" does not mean better prospect.

 

if lebron james said he was going mma right now, would he be a better prospect?

 

lesnar was in show biz for 7 years between wrestling and mma. he had no history of striking jiu jitsu/pankration. he entered a horrible division and finished 5-3-1. his mma skills/potential were no where close to pico's.

 

No LeBron James would not be a better prospect just because he's more well known. No one woukd expect him to win. That's why CM Punk was not considered a good prospect.

 

Bottom line is Brock Leaner inspite of having zero striking history or zero jj history was in fact a better prospect because he was expected to contend for a world championship immediately. Pico is not expected to be the best fighter in his weight division immediately. It doesn't matter if Lesnars division was considered weak or his MMA skills were not close to Pico's. You want to say Pico is more talented that Lesner fine. But Leaner was definitely a bigger prospect when he had zero matches under his belt.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I mean, if you want to call him a better prospect because he had an easy path to a title, fine. It will take Pico longer to get to a title fight. i agree w/ that. but he had no history and displayed no skills. fought his first fight when he was 30. lost his first ufc fight in about ten seconds and lasted a whopping 8 fights.

 

his anticipated skill level is no where near Aaron Pico's. 

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Again, Pico is 6-0 against Zain and not one of these wins counted. Zain is on the World Team, won multiple NCAA titles and Pico...went to MMA. Let's see how AP does in MMA and if he can take being punched by a grown man. All the​ best to AP, but can we win the big one?

Edited by RetiredPoster

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I mean, if you want to call him a better prospect because he had an easy path to a title, fine. It will take Pico longer to get to a title fight. i agree w/ that. but he had no history and displayed no skills. fought his first fight when he was 30. lost his first ufc fight in about ten seconds and lasted a whopping 8 fights.

 

his anticipated skill level is no where near Aaron Pico's.

 

You have a way of skewing things.

1. Easy path to a title? No more like due to his physical attributes he was immediately a contender.

2. Being a bigger prospect doesn't mean you are more skilled. It means greater chance/expectation for success.

3. His age is irrelevant. You said yourself there has never been a bigger prospect before ever having a professional mma fight. Once Brock announced he was going mma the exoectation was for him to make an immediate impact on the sport. While Pico is absolutely more talented and skilled fighter from a technical standpoint, hes in a wait and see situation.

4. Lost his first fight in 10 seconds. More like got caught in a knee bar after knocking the crap out of Frank Mir. Mir got lucky in that first fight and would not have lasted much longer.

5 8 whopping fights? While certainly not a very long MMA career, it's far from being a short one either.

 

Again Brock Leaner was by far a bigger prospect than Aaron Pico. It honestly isn't even cclose.

 

Now if you want to say Pico is the most talented or skilled fighter coming into an MMA career, that's a different story.

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Isn't Bellatore like the minor league compared to the UFC? If Pico is the greatest MMA prospect of all time why isn't he with them? They have the vast majority of the top ranked fighters.

Becaue he signed to be with Bellator through his management sponsorship deal at age 16 with no previous pro fights. The UFC wasn't going to sign someone that young nor with no pro experience. Bellator took a big chance and grabbed Pico early before UFC would get a shot at him. If he turns out to be UFC good I'm sure we will see them bid for his services when Pico's current Bellator contract is up.

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No one in their right mind who wants to make money goes to the UFC. The lack of sponsorship money and tiered pay are the reason soany fighters are jumping out of it.

 

Someone needs to create a safe space for all of you who took offense to Pico's interview. He answered a question not like he went on a Twitter rant. He gave Zane credit on his accomplishment but just stated facts.

Penn State has the best coaching staff in the country and they couldn't figure out how to beat the high school kid. Only to coach Zane to try and slow him down at best. 6-0 and never in danger.

 

Also, why is it no one points out that Zane and Frank we're team mates. I can't count how many times I have seen lesser wrestlers compete with more accomplished wrestlers in the practice room because they learned their ticks, tells and patterns.

Edited by ElChangodeAmor

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Again, Pico is 6-0 against Zain and not one of these wins counted. Zain is on the World Team, won multiple NCAA title and Pico...went to MMA. Let's see how AP does in MMA and if he can take being punched by a grown man. All the​ best to AP, but can we win the big one?

yeah I'm sure Retherford wasn't even trying to win when they wrestled. the only wrestling matches that count are D1 NCAA wins and senior freestyle wins from 2017 and on. 

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