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Is Snyder the greatest college wrestler of all time?

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The question is who was better at their peak while in college. No one is arguing that cael had the best career ever but best career is not the question here. It has to be between Cael, Ueteke, Snyder and Smith imo

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It is all in the eye of the beholder. If wrestling is wrestling then IMO it is appropriate to look at how the "great ones" fared in freestyle while they were in college.

 

Cael Sanderson in blue after his redshirt sophmore campaign.

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Kyle Snyder in blue after his true freshman campaign.

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Who is that throwing Karl?

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Note, I did not ask about college wrestling career.   Snyder is not really in the running for that given losses freshman year.

 

I'm asking if Snyder is the best college wrestler at their peak ...... meaning, while in college, his level was higher and better than any other U.S. college wrestler (while they were competing in college wrestling)!  Fair to take into account all wrestling accomplishments.

 

Seems to me it is Uetake and Snyder as the top 2.  Did Uetake win his world title after first year competing in college (I say that believe he didn't compete freshman year due to not being permitted to compete as a Freshman, like other's)?   

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Note, I did not ask about college wrestling career.   Snyder is not really in the running for that given losses freshman year.

 

I'm asking if Snyder is the best college wrestler at their peak ...... meaning, while in college, his level was higher and better than any other U.S. college wrestler (while they were competing in college wrestling)!  Fair to take into account all wrestling accomplishments.

 

Seems to me it is Uetake and Snyder as the top 2.  Did Uetake win his world title after first year competing in college (I say that believe he didn't compete freshman year due to not being permitted to compete as a Freshman, like other's)?   

There is no reason Smith wouldn't be as high or higher than Snyder. He can't be eliminated from the conversation as you did.  Also if you are talking peak than what year (frosh, soph, etc...) has no bearing.  

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this reminds me a bit of greatest HS wrestler ever discussions and Dave Schultz. Some will say he was the greatest HS wrestler ever given his freestyle and greco exploits (at senior level) while still in HS. Others will say no way, he only won Cali state 1 x. 

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Yojo Uetake is it in US Collegiate wrestling. "never saw him tested" per Myron Roderick and those of us old enough to have seen him back then are still amazed at how good he was.

As an Assistant at OSU he would get frustrated because no one on the team could even keep up with his warm up workouts.

 

College wrestlers.

 

Snyder is excellent but undefeated 4 timer Cael Sanderson has the better College record.

Sanderson lost in college to Paul Jenn in his redshirt year. Nice try though.

 

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Sanderson lost in college to Paul Jenn in his redshirt year. Nice try though.

 

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Redshirt losses don't count on your official record. You didn't know this?

 

 

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Redshirt losses don't count on your official record. You didn't know this?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

He did lose to Paul Jenn in his redshirt campaign.

 

Yeah, it's true.

 

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But wrestling is wrestling isn't it? The dude is on a path to become the greastest US wrestler (NCAA and freestyle) ever. When most college guys (Cael and Dake included) are getting fat and happy in the summer time mopping mats for their coach's summer youth clinics Snyder was winning a World Championship and Olympic gold medal. That is way more impressive than isolating yourself to a crappy wrestling style and subpar competition in the US.

 

I don't doubt that Snyder is on a path to be the best American wrestler ever. I like him, and hope he DOES become the best ever. That doesn't bely the fact that there are several whose achievements in college wrestling are superior. 

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TobusRex -- whose achievements, while in college, are superior to Snyder's?  Who reached a higher pinnacle while in college?  Snyder has a world gold at 19 years old, an Olympic gold at 20 years old (I think I have those years correct).  Whose achievement's are superior to that?

 

Smith won his world gold after junior year correct?  Just trying to make sure I understand.  Did he get another world/Olympic title while still an NCAA wrestler?

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Note, I did not ask about college wrestling career.   Snyder is not really in the running for that given losses freshman year.

 

I'm asking if Snyder is the best college wrestler at their peak ...... meaning, while in college, his level was higher and better than any other U.S. college wrestler (while they were competing in college wrestling)!  Fair to take into account all wrestling accomplishments.

 

Seems to me it is Uetake and Snyder as the top 2.  Did Uetake win his world title after first year competing in college (I say that believe he didn't compete freshman year due to not being permitted to compete as a Freshman, like other's)?   

 

Hmmm....with the proviso you mention about the level he reached during college? He's close, but not quite there. Uetake also won an Olympic Gold after his Soph season, and was undefeated in college to boot. But Uetake was Japanese, despite dominating NCAA wrestling at the time. Could Kyle be the best AMERICAN college wrestler ever, taking into account his other achievements?  Very possible. That broaches another topic: how about the college wrestlers in Russia or Iran? They may not have an outfit like the NCAA, but I bet some of their wrestlers are college students. 

Edited by TobusRex

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TobusRex -- whose achievements, while in college, are superior to Snyder's?  Who reached a higher pinnacle while in college?  Snyder has a world gold at 19 years old, an Olympic gold at 20 years old (I think I have those years correct).  Whose achievement's are superior to that?

 

Smith won his world gold after junior year correct?  Just trying to make sure I understand.  Did he get another world/Olympic title while still an NCAA wrestler?

 

Uetake, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous. Uetake won Olympic gold after his Soph season in the NCAA. Not only that but rumor has it Uetake never lost a FS match EITHER. Uetake was so good even after he separated his shoulder in 1968 he still won his second Olympic title. 

 

Smith won the World Title after he finished his Junior season at the age of 22. I'd rate Kyle ahead of John Smith at this point in his career, definitely. 

Edited by TobusRex

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Guest Kingsland

Are there many/any 4 timers who did not take a redshirt? Only reason I ask is because I think it's safe to assume Kyle would have been a 4 timer and very likely an undefeated 4Xer if he redshirted his freshman season.

He wouldn't have won across 4 weight classes which is his claim to fame amongst the 4 timers. He could barely make 149 as a sophomore let alone 141

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Uetake may be #1. Seems like it is hard to unseat him too. Snyder has taken some FS losses.

 

And yes, I'm talking about NCAA wrestlers. Happy to have Uetake in the mix.

 

Perhaps if limit to American citizen NCAA wrestlers, Snyder may be #1.

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He wouldn't have won across 4 weight classes which is his claim to fame amongst the 4 timers. He could barely make 149 as a sophomore let alone 141

So confused. Which Kyle is being discussed in which part of this discussion?

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I think the premise of this post is a good one. By asking "who was the best college at their peak" you throw out all kinds of difficult to assess differences between wrestlers at the start of their college careers. (questions such as how physically developed were they at the age of 18, did they redshirt, how well coached were they coached, did they wrestle freshman year because it was the best move for their career or the team, did they even wrestle all four years (Royce Alger, 2x NCAA champ didn't)). So by zeroing in, say, on an athlete's peak year and asking how does that peak year compare to others, you narrow (but don't completely eliminate) some of the variability. 

 

In terms of peak career questions, I think we are in similar territory as Hodge Trophy questions, with a few key differences. For me, I like throwing in what they did internationally, though it's not entirely correct because some wrestlers won't or don't do it. Nevertheless Snyder winning 2015 worlds, beating Gwiz and then winning the 2016 Olympics puts him top 3 ever in my book but if you don't think FS should be part of the equation then while that year was great (he defeated a future world team member and returning 2x NCAA champ, up a weight), there are other stories that are right there with that one. 

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Are there many/any 4 timers who did not take a redshirt? Only reason I ask is because I think it's safe to assume Kyle would have been a 4 timer and very likely an undefeated 4Xer if he redshirted his freshman season.

 

Dake is the only 4 timer not to take a RS. So his claim to greatness is twofold: he never took a RS AND he went up in weight each year. 

 

Pat Smith - took RS (would have only been a 3 timer otherwise because of OSU being on probation at the time). I think his RS happened after his Soph year. 

Cael Sanderson - took RS 

Logan Steiber - took RS

Kyle Dake - didn't RS. 

Edited by TobusRex

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