LJB 2,093 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 there is a fine line between hubris and stupidity, but, this was not a greek tragedy... the fact of the matter is that lots of more appropriate opponents turned down the pico fight... pico was fighting out of his weight class, which, does matter... he got offered a fight and he took it thinking he would win... that is what a fighter does... in the long term he will be fine... 2 Yellow_Medal and denger reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 2,033 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 there is a fine line between hubris and stupidity, but, this was not a greek tragedy... the fact of the matter is that lots of more appropriate opponents turned down the pico fight... pico was fighting out of his weight class, which, does matter... he got offered a fight and he took it thinking he would win... that is what a fighter does... in the long term he will be fine... Yep 1 denger reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denger 339 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 This just sucks. I'm happy to blame the "adults" who helped create this narrative, even if they were just enabling the vision of a kid. Straggler's assessment on scheduling the first fight like this rings pretty clear to me. Fundamentally, it was a gamble: no risk = no reward, and sometimes risk is punishing. What are his options now? I hope he's considering some management changes, maybe a new tack now that they've sailed right into the wind. I don't doubt his talent, but this certainly appears to be an all the eggs in one basket scenario. One loss doesn't end his career, but a super humiliating first one raises some tough questions about the path they took. Is college off the table? Zain might finally get his win if they roll in folkstyle. It'd be a good story either way! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
straggler 65 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 there is a fine line between hubris and stupidity, but, this was not a greek tragedy... the fact of the matter is that lots of more appropriate opponents turned down the pico fight... pico was fighting out of his weight class, which, does matter... he got offered a fight and he took it thinking he would win... that is what a fighter does... in the long term he will be fine... Sorry but that actually makes it worse. Every other fighter in the history of the sport has been able to find a reasonable debut fight opponent. There is always some struggling fighter out there looking for a paycheck. The entire history of boxing and mma attests to that. It is not that Pico's management could not find such an opponent or a more appropriate setting, just that they did not think they needed it. Now to read that Pico was fighting above his natural weight class is just icing on the cake. All fighters are confident, many over confident. And many fight managers convince themselves that they have the next big thing. It is up to the people guiding the fighter's career to put the fighter's feet back on the ground and to not shoot their fighter in the foot. Virtually every other prospect manages it. Compare this to who Cejudo fought in his first professional fight for example. So I would say a lot of hubris and a lot of stupidity. Glad you think in the long term he will be fine. But a lot of fighters careers get ruined by being pushed to soon. All I know is that Pico was made a national laughingstock. Not easy to come back from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,790 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 This just sucks. I'm happy to blame the "adults" who helped create this narrative, even if they were just enabling the vision of a kid. Straggler's assessment on scheduling the first fight like this rings pretty clear to me. Fundamentally, it was a gamble: no risk = no reward, and sometimes risk is punishing. What are his options now? I hope he's considering some management changes, maybe a new tack now that they've sailed right into the wind. I don't doubt his talent, but this certainly appears to be an all the eggs in one basket scenario. One loss doesn't end his career, but a super humiliating first one raises some tough questions about the path they took. Is college off the table? Zain might finally get his win if they roll in folkstyle. It'd be a good story either way! Is Pico even eligible to compete in the NCAA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,790 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 I wont comment on whether or not Pico was fighting at his natural weight or not, however he did weigh in .2lbs heavier than Freeman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denger 339 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Is Pico even eligible to compete in the NCAA? Oh, right, the professional thing. My question was probably stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HurricaneWrestling 1,123 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Oh, right, the professional thing. My question was probably stupid. Shouldn't be a problem - different sports: "In the NCAA's confusing world of amateurism, you can be deemed an amateur in one sport while clearly a professional in another. A pro athlete paid in one sport can simultaneously play college athletics in a different sport and receive a scholarship. It doesn't happen much, but the sport most frequently impacted is a college football player who also participates in minor league baseball. In 2010, Kyle Parker was Clemson's quarterback after he got a $1.4 million signing bonus from the Colorado Rockies. Russell Wilson had a $200,000 signing bonus with the Rockies, some of which he had to return to the club when he left to play quarterback at Wisconsin. Roscoe Crosby had a $1.75 million signing bonus from the Kansas City Royals while a Clemson wide receiver in the early 2000s." - Excerpt from CBS Sports article at: http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/10-ways-college-athletes-can-get-paid-and-remain-eligible-for-their-sport/ 1 denger reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying-Tiger 617 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Pretty sure Pico lost his college eligibility when he accepted paid sponsorship. Edited June 25, 2017 by Flying-Tiger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denger 339 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Shouldn't be a problem - different sports: Thanks Hurricane! I'm a believer in higher education, but was swayed by the argument about the degradation of the body over 4-5 years for the really elite guys. I think it's also valuable to see guys take a different path, better or worse we learn more from a variety of approaches than a single one. I just hope this doesn't turn out to be 'worse'. 1 HurricaneWrestling reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steen-hooph 74 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Hopefully Snyder will give the Octagon a go! First time I've seen the punch. Funny thing is, Picos punch lands simultaneously and actually looks pretty good too...just not good enough. Margin for error is so small. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 2,093 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Sorry but that actually makes it worse. Every other fighter in the history of the sport has been able to find a reasonable debut fight opponent. There is always some struggling fighter out there looking for a paycheck. The entire history of boxing and mma attests to that. It is not that Pico's management could not find such an opponent or a more appropriate setting, just that they did not think they needed it. Now to read that Pico was fighting above his natural weight class is just icing on the cake. All fighters are confident, many over confident. And many fight managers convince themselves that they have the next big thing. It is up to the people guiding the fighter's career to put the fighter's feet back on the ground and to not shoot their fighter in the foot. Virtually every other prospect manages it. Compare this to who Cejudo fought in his first professional fight for example. So I would say a lot of hubris and a lot of stupidity. Glad you think in the long term he will be fine. But a lot of fighters careers get ruined by being pushed to soon. All I know is that Pico was made a national laughingstock. Not easy to come back from. lots of pure speculation coupled with hyperbole in the above... what do we know? lots of fighters turned down fighting pico... how many is lots? not sure, but, lots was used many times in pre and post fight interviews by several different people... pico was way outsized in this match up... pico was not made a national laughing stock... he fought a much more experienced guy who was not a chump... **** happens in fights... everyone loses in MMA... it is the nature of the sport... only losers can't come back from losses and pico is not a loser... this is his job... he will get back to work and be fine... just like he did throughout his wrestling career Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repechange 184 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 What I enjoy even more than Pico losing is seeing all the forum nut huggers still clinging to his scrotal sac even after he got a well deserved azz kicking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,790 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 First time I've seen the punch. Funny thing is, Picos punch lands simultaneously and actually looks pretty good too...just not good enough. Margin for error is so small. If you watch carefully you will notice, Pico takes the punch full force on the chin. Freeman on the other hand is coming in at an angle and actually rolls his head with the momentum of the punch, thus softening the blow. 1 AllISeeIsBronze reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headshuck 2,587 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 I'd put this right up there with Taylor vs Jenkins final. Wily veteran with the uppercut ready for the young gunslinger. 4 nyum, GranbyTroll, Yellow_Medal and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matness 20 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Pico controlled the center of the mat real well. No passivity points in this match. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RetiredPoster 87 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Ive been comparing the AP situation with Marinovich for years. Though, I don't see AP making the decisions that Marinovich made. Its tough to be a youth superstar and then make that transition to the Seniors. Wrestling and Boxing "men" is very different than fighting, "young men." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MadMardigain 1,596 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 First time I've seen the punch. Funny thing is, Picos punch lands simultaneously and actually looks pretty good too...just not good enough. Margin for error is so small. Also didn't help Pico fell forward and right into Freeman's go-to BBJ finish. If he would have stumbled backward he may have had a couple more seconds to collect himself and defend against the initial ground attack. Great awareness and capitalization on Freeman's part despite getting hit himself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chingadiculous 155 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 Bellator has released video footage of an alternate camera with in-fight audio recording the moments before Pico tapped. 2 Frank_Rizzo and TobusRex reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hammerlockthree 2,582 Report post Posted June 25, 2017 "Oops, maybe I'm not the world beater so many think I am" do you even know what quotes are for? 1 nyum reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HurricaneWrestling 1,123 Report post Posted June 26, 2017 First time I've seen the punch. Funny thing is, Picos punch lands simultaneously and actually looks pretty good too...just not good enough. Margin for error is so small. I also thought they landed simultaneously until I slowed the video down and looked at it frame by frame. Freeman got there a split second sooner with the uppercut - and it looked like that prevented Pico from getting full extension on his right. However, I agree with you that Pico's right looked pretty good. I wonder what would have happened had Pico got there first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RetiredPoster 87 Report post Posted June 26, 2017 Again, Speculation City.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 4,490 Report post Posted June 26, 2017 Again, Speculation City.... A true one punch fantasy outcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CA_Wrestler 316 Report post Posted June 26, 2017 Bad debut, but it's one match. If he loses a few more in a row, then that's a major problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chingadiculous 155 Report post Posted June 26, 2017 When you make gifs with ezgif.com you should not hotlink them as they are temporary. I recommend downloading the file then uploading to imgur. 1 HurricaneWrestling reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
